Mormons are my favorite Christians today!

[BoSoxGal]

Mormon Church Comes Out in Support of LGBT Rights
—Inae Oh on Tue. January 27, 2015 2:38 PM PDT

In a groundbreaking news conference on Tuesday, the Mormon Church officially announced its support for some LGBT rights, on the condition that the same legal protections are extended to all religious groups. But in doing so, the church also made clear their endorsement did not reverse the church's opposition to same-sex marriage.

"We call on local, state, and the federal government to serve all of their people by passing legislation that protects vital religious freedoms for individuals, families, churches, and other faith groups while protecting the rights of our LGBT citizens in such areas as housing, employment, and public accommodation in hotels, restaurants, and transportation," Elder Dallin Oaks, a top official of the church, said. "[These] protections are not available in many parts of the country."

"We must all learn to live with others who do not share the same beliefs or values," church officials stated.

The announcement comes as an anti-discrimination bill makes its way through Utah's state legislature that seeks to ban gender-based discrimination in the workplace and housing. In the past, the church has made overtures towards friendlier LGBT stances, but Tuesday's press conference is by far its most clear endorsement of gay rights. Mother Jones' Stephanie Mencimer has covered the church's evolution on same-sex marriage:

In the five years since the LDS church sent busloads of the faithful to California to canvass neighborhoods, and contributed more than $20 million via its members to support the initiative, it has all but dropped the rope in the public policy tug of war over marriage equality. The change stems from an even more remarkable if somewhat invisible transformation happening within the church, prompted by the ugly fight over Prop. 8 and the ensuing backlash from the flock.

Although the LDS's prophet hasn't described a holy revelation directing a revision in church doctrine on same-sex marriage or gay rights in general, the church has shown a rare capacity for introspection and humane cultural change unusual for a large conservative religious organization.

"I am proud that the LDS Church has seen fit to lead the way in non-discrimination," state senator and founder of the Utah Pride Center Jim Dabakis said in a news release following the announcement. "As a religious institution, Mormons have had a long history of being the victims of discrimination and persecution. They understand more than most the value and strength of creating a civil society that judges people by the content of their character and their ability to do a job."

If only the big religions would get on board with tolerance.

[rubato]

Good for them. It is more so because they were a center of anti-gay political organizing only recently.


yrs,
rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

Thank goodness they are not Christians - give the place a bad name

[Big RR]

I'll leave whether they are christian or not to them, but I do think the message of tolerance is among the teachings of jesus.

[MajGenl.Meade]

No, you don't leave it to other people to define whether or not they are part of a larger body which has certain specific characteristics.

Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation who was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator of all (John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5).

This is Christianity
1.There is only one God in all existence (Exodus 20:1-4; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5).
2.Jesus is divine (John 1:1, 14; 8:24; Col. 2:9)
3.Forgiveness of sins is by grace alone without works (Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 3:28; 4:1-5)
4.Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21; Luke 24:39)
5.The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4)

Now, if Mormons can agree to all 5 of those, without modification, then they are Christians. If not, then not. And we can all be tolerant until the cows come home but I won't tolerate lies and nor should anyone else, of whatever persuasion.

[Big RR]

Well Meade, you can have your code of faith and others can have theirs. I'll leave it to the Mormons to decide what to call themselves, not you or any other person; likewise I'll leave it to you (not the mormons or anyone else0 to decide what to call themselves). If they choose to call themselves Christians, so be it. If you choose not to call them Christians, that is fine with me.

[wesw]

I don t know...

it seems that the criterion for a new religion includes a new book and prophet or god. once the Christians had the gospels, written or spoken, they were no longer jews, same with the muslims, even tho they use the previous books and beliefs to a certain extent, they have the Koran and a new religion.

the book of Mormon constitutes a new religion, in my view, even tho they hold to some of the beliefs of the older books

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well Meade, you can have your code of faith and others can have theirs. I'll leave it to the Mormons to decide what to call themselves, not you or any other person; likewise I'll leave it to you (not the mormons or anyone else0 to decide what to call themselves). If they choose to call themselves Christians, so be it. If you choose not to call them Christians, that is fine with me.

I call bs on that. You can say as often as you like that you are Welsh but you're not. You can say you are a Troskyite but you are not. You can say you follow the teachings of Ted Bundy - but you don't. Mormons can say they follow Christ but that doesn't make it so.

If you truly believe that saying you are a particular thing means that you ARE that particular thing, then you're nuts (and you'd better believe it )

[rubato]

Mormons are better Christians than nearly all other Christians have ever been. They have lower rates of alcoholism, divorce, and smoking. And they have a social welfare system more effective than any ever practiced by any other Christian church in all of history.

And they have never had the taint of persecuting other sects which nearly all others have. (ok the Amish, Mennonites, Hutterites, and a tiny group of others are as good.)


yrs,
rubato

[wesw]

see RR ? the above post just proves meade s point.

it s not even worth the trouble of refuting it, as easy as it would be to do so....

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well that logic makes them better atheists too, doesn't it?

[liberty]

Well Meade, you can have your code of faith and others can have theirs. I'll leave it to the Mormons to decide what to call themselves, not you or any other person; likewise I'll leave it to you (not the mormons or anyone else0 to decide what to call themselves). If they choose to call themselves Christians, so be it. If you choose not to call them Christians, that is fine with me.

I can call a bull a cow but a but that does not mean he can give milk. Hove you ever heard of atheist Christians?

[BoSoxGal]

My family stopped attending church when I was 10 years old; because until then we'd attended regularly and I was active in Sunday school, etc., I really felt the absence of it.

Over the next several years I tagged along with various friends to their churches and experienced nearly the whole spectrum of Christian denominations.

Without a doubt my favorite church was the Mormon church - the people were very kind, the children's and teens' groups were very active & supportive, there was a regular family night when TVs were shut off in favor of family games and Bible study, and my Mormon friends were very wholesome in terms of avoiding alcohol, smoking, drugs, promiscuity, etc.

I was preparing to convert, but then I started reading more about the faith and the weird shit turned me off. Which goes to show that the weird stuff isn't the focus of general worship in the church - when I talked to my best Mormon friend about some of my concerns, she wasn't even aware of some of the stranger tenets of her faith.

For the record, in Mormon Bible study we spent equal time reading the Bible as reading the Book of Mormon.

With the knowledge I've since gained in study of comparative religions, I realize now that the weird stuff in Mormonism is no weirder than the weird stuff in traditional Christianity or the weird stuff in any other major or minor religion. All religions require suspension of disbelief and the willingness to believe in fantastical stories.

[Big RR]

Meade, Lib, et al.--I cannot choose to be Welsh (or of Welsh descent); a bull cannot choose to be a cow, but I (and everyone else for that matter) can choose to be a Christian (or atheist, or moslem, or whatever). Now some, like Meade, maintain that they (or others claiming to be of the Christian faith) can set the standards for what is (and is not) a Christian in the ways that the standards for a Welshman or bull are set. I call BS on that; nowhere in the bible is any person or group given this authority (unless you subscribe to the "keys to the kingdom", but even there it is not the ability to tell people what they can and cannot call themselves, only the ability to control entry to heaven).

There are many different denominations that call themselves Christian, and not all believe to the letter Meade's 5 articles of faith. Indeed, some are hotly debated--is the one god a trinity or a single god from whom the son and holy ghost proceed (or does the holy ghost proceed from the father alone or the father and the son); was jesus made or ""begotten" (and what's the difference?)? Likewise, on point 2, what is the nature of the divinity of jesus and is it a trinity or separate beings? We could go on and on, but this is not a thread to discuss those beliefs. My only point is, that these are mysteries that have confounded Christian scholars and caused schisms and breaks among the great churches; there is no general agreement among the points among those professing to be Christians.

Meade may not consider Mormons to be Christians (hell, I may not either), but neither of us speaks for god or jesus, and I'm content to let everyone follow his or her own path and call themselves what they want; I trust they will leave me to my conscience as well. And if they are ultimately "wrong", I leave that to a power greater than myself to tell them).

I think Meade hit the nail on the head with the term "Trotskyite"; I can well be a communist without subscribing to Trotsky's brand of communism; likewise, I (or anyone else) can be a Christian without following Meade's particular brand of Christianity.

[TPFKA@W]

The Mormons could never do anything that would absolve them of their attitude about females, particularly concerning afterlife. They believe that the men are essentially elevated to God status and given their own planet to populate as they see fit, whilst women are left in limbo contingent upon an invitation from their husband in life.

Utter bullhockey and I give them no credit for this tiny measure.

[oldr_n_wsr]

If I couldn't be with my wife in heaven, then it really wouldn't be heaven (for me anyway).

[Big RR]

Maybe you could be with a planet of your wives, like that Harry Mudd guy on Star Trek (of course, for him that wasn't heaven).

[oldr_n_wsr]

Only one wife. But that would work.
ME, my wife and my planet, that's all I need.
And this lamp.
My wife my planet and this lamp and that's all I need.
And the paddle game.
My wife, my planet, this lamp and the paddle game and that's all I need.
oh and the chair........

[Lord Jim]

If I couldn't be with my wife in heaven, then it really wouldn't be heaven (for me anyway).

Does that mean that if you go before her, you expect her to throw herself on the funeral pyre? Have you discussed this with her?

[Big RR]

Now, now, Star Trek solved that one too; like Captain Pike's girl on Talos 4, he could have the illusion of his wife to keep him company until she finally deigned to come.

One day there will be a broadway play--The Book of Star Trek.