This is so stupid, Puerto Rico

[liberty]

*swoosh*

I knew that you were being humorous, but I took the opportunity to make a serious point.

[liberty]

And when are we gong to do something about those damn Guamers, huh? (Guamers? Guamish? Guamese? Guamites? Guamians? whatever....)

I can hardly sleep at night I'm so pissed at our continued involvement in this Vietnam of the South Pacific...

Guam is a US territory and any attempt to break away there would be a crime. And besides I understand from Guamanians that I have met that they are proud to be Americans which is not the same case with Puerto Rico.

[liberty]

And don't get me started with those fuckers in the American Samoa

A US territory the like Guam.

[Lord Jim]

Okay lib, how about:

The Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands

The Northern Mariana Islands, officially the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI; Chamorro: Sankattan Siha Na Islas Mariånas), is one of five inhabited American insular areas. It is one of two territories with "Commonwealth" status; the other is Puerto Rico.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Mariana_Islands

[Big RR]

Puerto Rico is a US territory in which many US laws apply and the US courts have jurisdiction. They do have the ability to vote for independence, but they will not be independent unless Congress agrees. Indeed, as one of the spoils of the Spanish American War, they have been a territory since the late 19th century. Other territories (like the Philippines) were permitted to become independent of the US based on the wishes of their people, so I cannot see how having the right to voice their opinion makes Puerto Rico any less a territory than other territories we hold.

Jim--thanks.

[BoSoxGal]

Exactly - I posted this then deleted it in favor of the *swoosh*.

Our involvement in all of these U.S. territories, which are heavily subsidized by American taxpayers, is for military strategic purposes. We're not going to give up Puerto Rico for many, many years - same as Guam, American Samoa, NMI. We keep these places on the payroll so we can use them to launch military adventures as necessary.

Yes, imperialism. Not going away anytime soon. We have an obligation to provide civil rights and entitlements to the peoples whose lands we are exploiting.

The fleas on the dog in the form of Puerto Ricans on government assistance are still nothing compared to the bums on the plush that constitute corporate tax evaders in this country - why not get angry about something that really matters?

[Sue U]

The fleas on the dog in the form of Puerto Ricans on government assistance are still nothing compared to the bums on the plush that constitute corporate tax evaders in this country - why not get angry about something that really matters?

That's the spirit!

[liberty]

Puerto Rico is a US territory in which many US laws apply and the US courts have jurisdiction. They do have the ability to vote for independence, but they will not be independent unless Congress agrees. Indeed, as one of the spoils of the Spanish American War, they have been a territory since the late 19th century. Other territories (like the Philippines) were permitted to become independent of the US based on the wishes of their people, so I cannot see how having the right to voice their opinion makes Puerto Rico any less a territory than other territories we hold.

Jim--thanks.

When the US government first permitted Puerto Rico to vote on independence we lost any claim to Puerto Rico as a territory of the US. If they ever vote for independences the congress will have no choice but allow them to leave or acknowledge before the world that we are an imperial power brutally imposing our will on other people. It makes a lot more sense to go ahead and let them go and get it over with now before that day comes.

We acknowledge Puerto Rico a common wealth; where is common wealth found in the Constitution

[Econoline]

Well, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and the Commonwealth of Virginia all ratified the U.S. Constitution--and the Commonwealth of Kentucky was part (Kentucky County) of the Commonwealth of Virginia before it split off and became a Commonwealth its own self...and all four of those commonwealths are still part of the U.S.A. [/geography nerd]

[rubato]

When the US government first permitted Puerto Rico to vote on independence we lost any claim to Puerto Rico as a territory of the US. If they ever vote for independences the congress will have no choice but allow them to leave or acknowledge before the world that we are an imperial power brutally imposing our will on other people. It makes a lot more sense to go ahead and let them go and get it over with now before that day comes.

We acknowledge Puerto Rico a common wealth; where is common wealth found in the Constitution

I do hope you talk to as many people as you can before the next election. Have you considered sending your thoughts to the "Letters" section of your local newspaper? Wealth like this should be spread as widely as possible.


yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

If they ever vote for independences the congress will have no choice but allow them to leave or acknowledge before the world that we are an imperial power brutally imposing our will on other people.

You say that like it's a bad thing. It's served us quite well in the past.

But face it, PR is not going anywhere; the independence vote barely registers on any plebiscite or in the part politics of the island. For better or worse, the population is evenly split between retaining the current status and becoming a state (with the current status generally having a slight lead) and a few percent, at best, for independence. Face it, the people there are not stupid--they can come and go to the mainland US and work freely, they are protected by the forces of the US, and (so long as they maintain their current status, they don't pay federal income taxes). Unless a really big divisive issue arises, I doubt independence will gain much ground; there are people from many other places who would live to have the same deal, and many risk their lives daily to come here. They won't give that up for something trivial.

As for the US; we are entrenched in PR as well; many big companies have plants there because they pay lower wages (federal minimum wage does not apply), get bog tax breaks (even federal ones), and get an educated workforce (most are at least high school graduates) and modern infrastructure. It's generally a no brainer, and I think the companies would be loather to give this up (although some have located to offshore locales to cut costs further, many remain, and PR has a fairly robust biotech/manufacturing industry). They (the ones who fund the congressional campaigns) would not stand for an independent PR and Congress would bow to its corporate masters and not allow them out (although they might sugarcoat it to say independence has to be done slowly so as not to affect the PR economy, and then just take forever, saving face and getting what their masters want).

[wesw]

as far as US territories being bought and sold....

...Washington dc comes to mind.

[Big RR]

Actually Washington DC is different--it is a federal district directly under control of Congress and formed as authorized by Article 1, Section 8 of the constitutition:

[Congress shall have the power]To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings (emphasis added)

As seen by the remainder of the language, the district is much like a fort, arsenal, or the like established by the federal government.

[liberty]

Well, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and the Commonwealth of Virginia all ratified the U.S. Constitution--and the Commonwealth of Kentucky was part (Kentucky County) of the Commonwealth of Virginia before it split off and became a Commonwealth its own self...and all four of those commonwealths are still part of the U.S.A. [/geography nerd]

Unless my memory is failing me I can’t remember anywhere in the constitution where the words common wealth is used to refer to a part of the United States. The federal district is used to refer to the territory of D.C. and there are territories waiting for statehood, but there is no provisions for a perpetual common wealth territory.

[Lord Jim]

where is common wealth found in the Constitution

The words "air force" are nowhere to be found in the Constitution either...

So I guess it must be "UnConstitutional" for the United States to have an air force...

[Big RR]

There are is also no mention of the people in any territory having a vote to approve annexation or not, but it happened in most, if not all territories. Indeed, Colorado turned down statehood at least once.