"Her Majesty’s Jihadists"...

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Lord Jim
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"Her Majesty’s Jihadists"...

Post by Lord Jim »

More British Muslims have joined Islamist militant groups than serve in the country’s armed forces. How to understand the pull of jihad.
This is an excellent in-depth article on the topic that appears in this Sunday's New York Times Magazine. (It's already available on-line)

Like an earlier article on the topic that Econo posted a link for, it's too long to post in its entirety, but well worth reading for anyone who is seriously interested in the subject:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magaz ... dists.html
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Big RR
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Re: "Her Majesty’s Jihadists"...

Post by Big RR »

I think we had some of the same things in the past; during the Spanish civil war Americans (including Hemingway) left to fight or support one side or the other (Generally the republic, but some associated with Franco and the Falange). And at the outbreak of WW2, Americans and some immigrants returned to their home countries to fight. Generally, those taking up arms against the US had their right of return barred (at least for a period of time), and even those who sought to fight against US interests were closely watched.

You'll always have some who want to jump on a bandwagon, whether it's fighting for Islamic forces n a jihad, to blundering into Cuba to oust Castro militarily. Personally, my feeling is let them go--good riddance; but let them know they leave at their peril and may not be able to return (which seems to be at least part of the new British law mentioned in the article). The writer of the article certainly had no problem finding some Brits who chose to fight on the side of ISIS, so I doubt British or US security forces would have any problem doing the same. The law should be narrowly structured and include a full/fair hearing and appellate process, but if they pose a potential threat through their own doing, they should be denied return (as anyone else should). But if they choose to leave--good riddance.

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Gob
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Re: "Her Majesty’s Jihadists"...

Post by Gob »

I wish them all a speedy ending.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Econoline
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Re: "Her Majesty’s Jihadists"...

Post by Econoline »

Thanks for that link, Jim. I just finished reading it and, hopefully, I'll have some time over the weekend to post some comments on both that article and the article in the Atlantic that I previously linked to, which you mentioned. It's an excellent article, and a good complement to that other article in that that one focused on the origins, leadership, strategic objectives and long-term goals of Da'esh, while this one focuses on the group's recruitment practices and the foot soldiers at the bottom of the organization.

One quick take-away: it really does seem that nations' policies regarding returning jihadis ought to be more nuanced than the one-size-fits-all hard-line approach preferred by many. Apparently a goodly number of returnees really are disillusioned and/or disturbed by their experiences in the "caliphate"...and might be the ones in the best position to discourage others from doing what they did and now regret.
“Before this bill was passed, according to official figures, 260 Britons had already returned, and only 40 or so were arrested, and may be brought to trial. So we’re talking about some 220 people who came back and got on with their lives. Now, with this new legislation, if someone really wants to come back because he’s disenchanted with all the infighting, with all that he’s seen, what’s going to happen to him? This is not something you can legislate with a blanket approach. What do you do? Tell this young man, You’re going to have to stay there for two more years, and thus become even more radicalized?”

He paused and then said: “Another thing which is terribly important is how to stop the flow; how to dissuade young men — and some women, too — from going out at all. And who is better to do this than those who have returned? Let them tell potential recruits: ‘It’s terrible! Don’t go!’ If you want to send a message, you’ve got to choose who that messenger will be. If you want to get credible messengers, you’ve got to find people with credibility.”

I'm also thinking of Abubaker Deghayes, the man interviewed at the end of the article, a father who has seen three of his five sons (two of them now dead) leave against his wishes to fight in Syria.
Abubaker told me that he was increasingly worried about Amer, to whom he had spoken the previous morning, and who was torn: his fellow fighters were urging him to stay. “It’s becoming harder and harder for Amer to pull himself out,” Abubaker said. “I keep telling him, I have faith in the fairness of the system here. But the fighters surrounding him there keep trying to dissuade him, telling him that dying as a martyr is better than living this life.”

He paused and then went on, saying that he was also concerned about what would happen to Amer if he did come home. “Under this new legislation, you’re guilty until you’re proven innocent. Many Brits went to fight in the revolution against Qaddafi; many fought in Bosnia and, before that, in Afghanistan. They were the cream of the Afghan Arabs, and they came home. They never did anything against this country, and they’re grandfathers now.”

Abubaker stood up to leave, but then turned to me and said: “Please tell Amer, if he reads your story, please tell him he must come home. And for any other young men, tell them now, please, tell them: Just don’t go!”
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