A Disgraceful Day For The National News Media

[Econoline]

Too long to quote in full, but worth reading:

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/30/8518681/protests-riots-work

Riots are destructive, dangerous, and scary
— but can lead to serious social reforms

[Crackpot]

Depends on the level of disillusionment. You get disillusioned with society enough you will become the other two. So yes I do agree that it is often a combination of the three. That being said you have to take each individual into their own account. However, I think you can make general assumptions based on preceding events. And unfortunately the current case in Baltimore points largely to the later two type for being the root cause. Why? Because quite simply put the lack of a straw that broke the camels back. No new info (revelations about charges or lack thereof) and no story of a trigger (case of immediate abuse of power by the police) or even a particularly tone deaf statement made by someone in "authority". Not to mention the public response afterward the "irrational anger" just doesn't seem to be there.

[Lord Jim]

Not to mention the public response afterward the "irrational anger" just doesn't seem to be there.

I've been very positively impressed by the larger community's response to the violence; both in words and deeds. (And I have posted about it)

Every single person who is actually a part of that community, from average citizens to community and religious leaders, no matter their anger over Freddie Gray or police relations in general, that I have seen interviewed or read quoted over the past few days has had nothing but condemnation for the looting and destruction that took place on Monday. I haven't seen it referred to as "justified" anywhere but on this board.

[BoSoxGal]

Perhaps my meaning wasn't clear, so let me clarify: the anger over police brutality that underlies the riots is justified.

I do not condone the looting and vandalism that has emerged from the justified anger-based rioting, but it is understandable given the systemic poverty, lack of opportunity, and the numbers of people who know or know of someone who has been mistreated and/or killed by police.

ri·ot
ˈrīət/Submit
noun
1.
a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd.
"riots broke out in the capital"
synonyms: uproar, commotion, upheaval, disturbance, furor, tumult, melee, scuffle, fracas, fray, brawl, free-for-all; More
an uproar.
"the film's sex scenes caused a riot in Cannes"
an outburst of uncontrolled feelings.
"a riot of emotions raged through Frances"
archaic
uncontrolled revelry; rowdy behavior.
2.
an impressively large or varied display of something.
"the garden was a riot of color"
synonyms: mass, sea, splash, show, exhibition
"the garden was a riot of color"
3.
informal
a highly amusing or entertaining person or thing.
"everyone thought she was a riot"
verb
verb: riot; 3rd person present: riots; past tense: rioted; past participle: rioted; gerund or present participle: rioting
1.
take part in a violent public disturbance.
"students rioted in Paris"
synonyms: rampage, go on the rampage, run riot, fight in the streets, run wild, run amok, go berserk; informal raise hell
"the miners rioted"

Rioting doesn't require looting and vandalism. The rioting is justified, IMNSHO.

[dgs49]

When I saw the title I thought this was going to be about the coverage of Bruce jenner.

[Crackpot]

Yes rioting only needs to require "violence".

[BoSoxGal]

Yes rioting only needs to require "violence".

Hmm, did you read the definitions and synonyms, I wonder?

And then there's the definition of violent:

Full Definition of VIOLENT

1
: marked by extreme force or sudden intense activity <a violent attack>
2
a : notably furious or vehement <a violent denunciation>
b : extreme, intense <violent pain> <violent colors>
3
: caused by force : not natural <a violent death>
4
a : emotionally agitated to the point of loss of self-control <became violent after an insult>
b : prone to commit acts of violence <violent prison inmates>
— vi·o·lent·ly adverb

Particularly relevant is the phrase 'sudden intense activity'; also 'extreme, intense, vehement'.

Rioting does NOT require physical violence. It can be running through the streets, shouting, screaming, etc.

Again, I don't condone the looting and vandalism, although I understand the anger behind it.


Words matter. When someone's meaning isn't certain to you, it makes better sense to ask them to clarify than to demand they use different words or assume you know what they are trying to express.

[Joe Guy]

You may be technically correct but I've never heard anyone in the media or anywhere else use the term riot to describe an event that didn't involve destruction of property or people fighting.

Until now, that is...

[Crackpot]

Yeses word matter and you are the one trying to twist them into something mean. Perhaps if you could show just one instance of something described as a riot (in the sence of civil unrest) that didn't include physical acts of violence I'll cede the point but to my knowledge the phrase has never been used that way and you are just trying to weasel your way out of admitting you made a poor choice of words.

[MajGenl.Meade]

[Joe Guy]

You're a riot, Meade...

[BoSoxGal]

Crackpot, many of your posts are barely literate and now you want to declare Webster's definitions incorrect? Pardon me for not caring.

I'm not weaseling out of anything. I've made the same points consistently in this thread and I stand by them 100%.

[Lord Jim]

the anger over police brutality that underlies the riots is justified.

Well now, that I can agree with...

Regardless of what the facts ultimately turn out to be in this specific case, the city of Baltimore paid out a total of 5.7 million dollars to over one hundred people in settlements in police brutality law suits, in just the four year period between between 2011 and 2014. That is powerful evidence that there is a real problem with police brutality in Baltimore. I will stipulate to that.

Here's a link to a good article about this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/baltimor ... its-2015-4

So the anger is certainly justified.

Here's something else we can probably all agree on...

Police departments all across the country need to implement better protocols and procedures when it comes to calling for medical help for people being taken into custody...

In three of the recent high-profile cases; the one in New York with the guy who got the choke hold, the one in Tulsa where the pretend cop fired his gun rather than his taser, and this one in Baltimore...

There were clear indications that emergency services should have been summoned immediately, and had that happened all three deaths might have been avoided.

But in each case, the officers on the scene seemed to have a lackadaisical and cavalier (to put it charitably) attitude toward getting medical help for the suspect.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I must admit to having been impressed by the large and varied display of something in Baltimore. The riot of colors was spectacular, quite rivalling the fall foliage of New England. It certainly made a splash! Rarely has one seen quite as many highly amusing or entertaining persons or things.

[wesw]

bigsky, i don t think that you know the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground.


i don t believe a word you spout and don t think that you believe your own words. your positions are constantly contradictory and your ego is enormous.

grass is green. please debate and discuss the truth and fiction of this statement. pointless....

[Lord Jim]

The timing on this has come as a pretty big surprise:

Freddie Gray Investigation: Six Cops Charged in His Death

Baltimore's state's attorney announced Friday that charges will be filed against six police officers in the death of Freddie Gray.

"I assured his family that no one is above the law and that I would pursue justice on their behalf," Marilyn Mosby said in a press conference on Friday.

The charges against the officers include second-degree murder, manslaughter, assault and misconduct in office, among others.

These are Mosby's first public comments on the case. Her announcement that her investigation had determined Gray's death was a homicide was met with cheers from Baltimore residents, who have held protests and riots demanding justice for the 25-year-old.

Gray was arrested April 12 and died a week later from his injuries. His death has prompted calls for police reform nationwide.

Baltimore's police commissioner said Thursday that his department had handed over confidential information on how Gray died to prosecutors. Meanwhile, the Justice Department is also working on its own independent investigation.

Mosby said in Friday's news conference that her office had been investigating Gray's death independent of police's investigation.

"We knew that this was a serious case," she said. "From day one, we investigated. We're not just relying solely on what we were given by the police department."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baltim ... ay-n351881

I watched her press conference; I have to say that Mosby was very impressive.

(She also looks a lot younger than she is; I looked her up, she's 35 but could easily pass for early 20's or even late teens. )

[Big RR]

The timing surprised me as well Jim; I just hope this doesn't blow up in their faces for bringing the charges too early. But she does appear to be quite competent so I'm somewhat optimistic this will not be the case.

[Lord Jim]

Here are the charges:

According to a release from the prosecutor's office, four officers are facing manslaughter charges and one faces an additional count of "second degree depraved heart murder."

That murder charge carries a possible penalty of 30 years in prison; the manslaughter and assault offenses carry a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison.

From the release:

Officer Caesar R. Goodson, Jr.: Second degree depraved heart murder; involuntary manslaughter; second degree assault; manslaughter by vehicle (gross negligence); manslaughter by vehicle (criminal negligence); misconduct in office

Officer William G. Porter: Involuntary manslaughter; second degree assault; misconduct in office

Lt. Brian W. Rice: Involuntary manslaughter; two counts of second degree assault; manslaughter by vehicle (gross negligence); two counts of misconduct in office; false imprisonment

Officer Edward M. Nero: Two counts of second degree assault; manslaughter by vehicle (gross negligence); two counts of misconduct in office; false imprisonment

Officer Garrett E. Miller: Two counts of second degree assault; two counts of misconduct in office; false imprisonment

Sgt. Alicia D. White: Involuntary manslaughter; second degree assault; misconduct in office

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... l-protests

[wesw]

very impressive . one thing still nags at me tho....

that guy sure did look hurt before he got in the van....

[Lord Jim]

The timing surprised me as well Jim; I just hope this doesn't blow up in their faces for bringing the charges too early. But she does appear to be quite competent so I'm somewhat optimistic this will not be the case.

I got the impression from her press conference, that even though they acted quickly they were very thorough. (One of the things she did at the news conference was read the entire charging document; I haven't been able to find it on-line yet.)

Also, she's backed up by the fact that the ME, based on their examination, has ruled the death a homicide.

ETA:

Also, if you look at the charges filed against each officer, it looks like significant care was taken to match up the evidence with the charges in each specific case. If she had simply thrown the book at all of the officers involved, that could have looked like careless over-charging just to appease the public, but that doesn't appear to be what happened here.

It appears to have been a careful and thoughtful process, even though a pretty quick one.