And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

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Lord Jim
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Lord Jim »

29-24...A victory for fear mongering and shameless pandering...

Very depressing.

ETA:

Correction; they're now saying 30-24...

The right-wing vote didn't go way up. What Netanyahu did with his hard-right turn (renouncing the 2 state solution) and his fear mongering (a last minute ad and robo-call blitz claiming that if he lost the Arabs would take over Israel...what he was referring to was the high voter turnout of Arab Israeli citizens, who had every right to vote) was to cannibalize the vote from smaller right-wing parties to get them to vote Likud instead...

The tactics that he used has delivered him an electoral victory, but at the cost of considerable damage to Israel's strategic interests.

It is not in Israel's interest to find itself alone in refusing to accept the formula of a two state solution, and it is not in the country's interest to try to make pariahs out of it's own Arab citizens. Netanyahu's tactics to hang on to power have put it on a path to do both.
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rubato
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by rubato »

Thank you John Boehner and the Republican Congress for making any reasonable agreement between moderate Palestinians and moderate Israelis impossible. How many of the deaths belong to them?


yrs,
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Long Run »

Didn't he do what the major parties in the U.S. do? He took on the key issue of a small faction in order to get their votes, kind of a big tent concept. I agree that he does not seem to be part of the solution, if such a thing exists.

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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Lord Jim »

Thank you John Boehner and the Republican Congress blah blah blah
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Yeah it's all John Boehner and The Evil Republican's fault; they have single-handledly made peace between the Israeli's and the Palestinians impossible...

That's kind of a tough sell, since, uh, the final election polls taken five days ago, (well after Netanyahu's speech) showed Likud losing by 4-5 seats...

(But I know you're never one to let a little thing like the facts get in the way of your incessant narrative...)

I love to start my mornings with a good laugh rube; thanks for that... :ok

ETA:


I guess I should just be grateful that he didn't blame Ronald Reagan... :D
Last edited by Lord Jim on Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Sue U »

I think what the numbers will show is that the Likud victory is mostly due to a very successful get-out-the-vote drive, particularly in Jerusalem and the Negev cities that are right-wing strongholds. Voter turnout was about 6% higher than the 2013 election, most of that bump undoubtedly going to Likud. Combined with the higher representation threshold and splintering of right-wing Shas (which has apparently kept the Yahad faction out of Knesset altogether, good riddance), Likud ended up with the biggest slice of the pie.

I don't think Netanyahu's speech to Congress affected the election one way or the other; the controversy was pretty well covered in the Israeli press. But Netanyahu and his supporters frankly don't give a shit what the U.S. or the world thinks about them or their policies. I really wouldn't be at all surprised if we see a Third Intifada as a result of the election, and really, who could blame them?
GAH!

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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Lord Jim »

What is it that Gomer says?

Oh yeah, ...

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Israel’s Netanyahu Reverses Position on Palestinian State Again

TEL AVIV—Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reversed himself for the second time in a week on support for a Palestinian state and said he would back it under the right conditions, a turnaround that the U.S. and Palestinians dismissed as unconvincing.

On Monday, the day before parliamentary elections, the Israeli leader said he was in danger of losing and made a hard shift to the right—abruptly reversing his 2009 declaration of support for a two-state solution to the decades old conflict with the Palestinians. His victory on election day, which defied pre-election polls, was widely attributed to the late shift in strategy.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/abbas-two-s ... 1426776658

And his shameless Machiavellian antics (even for a politician, this guy really pushes the envelope; he's buckin' up against Vladimir Putin-like levels of cynicism) have brought on a reaction that would have been here-to-fore unthinkable in the whole history of US-Israeli relations:
Obama says US to 're-assess' options after Netanyahu win

Washington (AFP) - President Barack Obama on Thursday warned Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu that Washington will "re-assess" its policies after the prime minister's election win called into question crucial US diplomatic cover for Israel at the UN.

Two full days after Netanyahu's shock election victory, the White House said Obama called the Israeli leader to congratulate him -- though the message was decidedly lukewarm.

Obama warned that the veteran Israeli leader's last-minute campaign pledge to oppose the creation of a Palestinian state and comments about Israeli Arabs voting in "droves" would force a rethink in Washington.

The US president called to congratulate Netanyahu "on his party's success in winning a plurality of Knesset seats," the White House said.

"The president told the prime minister that we will need to re-assess our options following the prime minister's new positions and comments regarding the two state solution," an administration official said on condition of anonymity.

"They also discussed Prime Minister Netanyahu's comments about Israeli Arabs."

Even as Netanyahu scrambled to deny he had ruled out the creation of a Palestinian state -- long the starting point for Middle East peace efforts and a cornerstone of US policy -- the White House indicated it could withdraw its unwavering support for Israel at the United Nations.

The United States -- a veto-wielding member of the UN Security Council -- has opposed moves at the UN to recognize a Palestinian state, saying that must be part of a negotiated peace deal.

It has also shielded Israel from often Arab-led UN votes castigating the Jewish state for various actions, including alleged human rights abuses.

"Steps that the United States has taken at the United Nations had been predicated on this idea that the two-state solution is the best outcome," said White House spokesman Josh Earnest.

"Now our ally in these talks has said that they are no longer committed to that solution. That means we need to re-evaluate our position in this matter, and that is what we will do moving forward."


Asked whether Washington would remove its diplomatic cover at the UN, a senior US official said that, while no decision has yet been made, "we haven't taken the option off the table."

Such a move would represent a major inflection point for US-Israeli relations, the likes of which has not been seen in years, or perhaps decades.
http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-us-re ... 46862.html
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Lord Jim »

Well, that alright then...
Israel's Netanyahu apologizes to country's Arab minority

JERUSALEM (AP) — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu apologized to Israel's Arab citizens on Monday for remarks he made during last week's parliament election that offended members of the community.

The move appeared to be an attempt to heal rifts and mute criticism at home and in the United States. Netanyahu drew accusations of racism in Israel, especially from its Arab minority, and a White House rebuke when, just a few hours before polling stations were to close across the country, he warned that Arab citizens were voting "in droves."

But President Barack Obama's chief of staff, Denis McDonough, rejected Netanyahu's attempt to distance himself from his comments, telling an Israel advocacy group Monday that the U.S. can't just overlook what Netanyahu said on the eve of his re-election.

Netanyahu, whose Likud Party won re-election in the vote, met with members of the Arab community at the prime minister's residence in Jerusalem on Monday and apologized.

He said he knows his "comments last week offended some Israeli citizens and offended members of the Israeli-Arab community."

"This was never my intent.
[of course it wasn't...your intent was to scare right-wing Israelis into voting for Likud rather than smaller right-wing parties with a chant of "the Arabs are coming! Be Afraid!", in order to juice up the Likud vote...and it worked like a charm] "I apologize for this," Netanyahu said. "I view myself as the prime minister of each and every citizen of Israel, without any prejudice based on religion, ethnicity or gender."
http://news.yahoo.com/israels-netanyahu ... 11920.html
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Scooter »

He said he knows his "comments last week offended some Israeli citizens and offended members of the Israeli-Arab community."
Distinguishing between "Israeli citizens" and "Israeli-Arab(s)", as if the latter are not part of the former, is a Freudian slip of epic proportions that shows Netanyahu's original comments for what they really were, regardless of the spin he is trying to attach to them now.
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Wouldn't that only be true if all Arabs living or working in Israel were citizens? Perhaps they are.

I wonder - if a US politician has ever said (in one way or another) that he'd offended some US citizens and members of the Irish-American community, would we see it the same way? It's certainly not an elegant way of saying it.

On the other hand, "the Israeli-Arab community and other Israeli citizens" doesn't seem to work either. It assumes all Arabs are citizens and appears to rank "other" citizens to an also-ran position.

I wonder if, when he was here, Netflixyahoo referred to our president as amabO בָּרַך
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Sue U »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:I wonder if, when he was here, Netflixyahoo referred to our president as amabO בָּרַך
That's amabO בּרק.

Not only did White House chief of staff Denis McDonough slam Netanyahu at the J Street conference, but flaming leftie hippie James Baker took aim at him as well.

But it's nice to see the Administration at least sending a high-ranking representative to speak at J Street, and not just at AIPAC. Not that it will actually have any substantive effect on the PM, Likud or their policies.
GAH!

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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by rubato »

And just when you thought it couldn't, it gets worse! The one saving grace is it is from the always-mendacious WSJ, habitual liars even before Rupert Murdoch bought it.



http://www.vox.com/2015/3/24/8286097/se ... -espionage

A new Wall Street Journal report claims that Israel spied on the US's nuclear negotiations with Iran and leaked results to members of Congress to encourage them to scuttle any deal the administration might reach.
[WSJ / Adam Entous]

Israeli officials denied the allegation.
[NYT / Jodi Rudoren and Michael Gordon]

On the one hand, this isn't that shocking of an allegation. Allies spy on each other all the time, and Israel allegedly tapped Secretary of State John Kerry's phone during peace talks with the Palestinians.
[Der Spiegel]

In fact, the Journal reports that the US found out about this instance of spying because it was spying on Israel itself.
[WSJ / Adam Entous]

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was also accused of leaking secret details of the Iran negotiations to the Israeli press in an attempt to undermine the talks.
[Vox / Max Fisher]

What's unusual is using intelligence to meddle in domestic politics and in particular to align the Israeli government with the Republican party.
[Vox / Zack Beauchamp]

"It's hard to think of another instance when a nation spied on an ally and then shared information with the ally's domestic rivals."
[Washington Post / Adam Taylor]

The Journal report suggests that leaking the intelligence to Congress may have backfired, as it "ended up alienating many congressional Democrats whose support Israel was counting on to block a deal."
[WSJ / Adam Entous]
http://www.vox.com/2015/3/24/8282867/ne ... ying-obama
Israel stole classified US information and used it to help congressional Republicans

Updated by Zack Beauchamp on March 24, 2015, 12:10 p.m. ET @zackbeauchamp zack@vox.com


The Wall Street Journal's Adam Entous dropped a huge story Tuesday morning: Israel acquired classified US information while spying on the Iranian nuclear negotiations, and leaked the stolen information about the emerging deal to American lawmakers in an attempt to sabotage the Obama administration's outreach to Tehran.

This is yet another disaster for US-Israel relations. But that's not because Israel acquired classified US information, which honestly isn't that surprising. What's really outrageous is that Israel used the information in a deliberate attempt to manipulate American politics.

No one should be shocked that Israel was spying on the talks. A certain degree of espionage is pretty par for the course in world politics, even among allies. Indeed, as Entous' story repeatedly makes clear, American officials expected Israel to snoop on them. In fact, according to Entous, the US found out about the Israeli spying because it was already spying on Israel:

The White House discovered the operation, in fact, when U.S. intelligence agencies spying on Israel intercepted communications among Israeli officials that carried details the U.S. believed could have come only from access to the confidential talks, officials briefed on the matter said.

But there is a real scandal here, and that's Israel using stolen intelligence as part of a deliberate campaign of messing around with American partisan politics. That's why the White House is angry: "It is one thing for the U.S. and Israel to spy on each other. It is another thing for Israel to steal U.S. secrets and play them back to U.S. legislators to undermine U.S. diplomacy," a senior US official told Entous.

If Entous' reporting is correct, the Israeli government used the leaked information to help Republicans build support for new sanctions among Democrats, which would be necessary to overcome Obama's veto. Israel was using stolen information to help Mitch McConnell and John Boehner foment a Democratic rebellion against the president.

This is the same reason Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech to Congress about Iran infuriated so many Democrats this month. The problem wasn't that Netanyahu was invited to Congress; it's that the speech was coordinated with Republicans behind the president's back in a deliberate attempt to undermine his Iran policy.

The spying/briefing allegations suggest the speech was part of a much broader campaign to help Republicans pass new sanctions, a particularly dangerous move by Netanyahu at a time when Israel is at risk of becoming a partisan issue in America.

Allies really aren't supposed to do this sort of thing. Playing partisan domestic politics — and doing it with classified information, no less — positions Israel as the Republican Party's ally, not America's. The fact that Republican interests line up with Israel's in this case doesn't justify crossing these lines.

None of this is to say the Netanyahu government has to just sit down and accept an American Iran policy it opposes. It's perfectly within bounds for Netanyahu to publicly oppose the ongoing negotiations in which international powers are seeking to limit Iran's nuclear capabilities in exchange for relief on its crippling economic sanctions. It's fine for Netanyahu to lobby the French, who have an important role in the negotiations, to push for more stringent limits on Iran's nuclear program. That's all normal international politics.

But Republicans' vote count in Congress isn't.

yrs,
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Scooter »

Somehow I doubt that those who casually throw around the t-word will be using it to describe these miscreants.
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Lord Jim »

The only one I know around here who casually throws around the "T" word is rube, so I guess you'll have to ask him...

I wouldn't be a bit surprised that Israel has been spying on these negocitations (afterall they are a critically interested party to whatever emerges from them). That of course doesn't make the Israelis "traitors"...(since they are, well, not Americans...)

As for them sharing classified information about the talks with members of Congress, there's certainly no evidence for this. The White House hasn't accused members of Congress of making any classified information about the talks public, in fact they regularly assert that the Administration's negociating position is being wrongly characterized by Congressional critics.
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

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From HaAretz:
Israel chooses the path to apartheid

It was once possible to argue that Israel's policies were not the same as apartheid because their stated goal, however imperfectly pursued, was to end the occupation. After Netanyahu's reelection, this is no longer the case.

By James Besser | Mar. 20, 2015 | 4:00 PM |

In my quarter century as Washington correspondent for Jewish newspapers, I frequently defended Israel against charges that it had created an apartheid system in the West Bank. But this week's election, with Benjamin Netanyahu poised to serve another term with an even more hardline coalition, means that apartheid is the path Israeli voters have chosen. The inevitable results will include even greater international isolation for the Jewish state, a boost to efforts to apply boycotts and sanctions, diminished support from American Jews and endlessly intensifying cycles of violence.

Since the Madrid peace process began in 1991, it was possible – though sometimes with great difficulty – to argue that Israel wanted to find some route to accommodation with the Palestinians. Sure, there were huge obstacles to overcome, not the least of which was a shortsighted Palestinian leadership and a volatile, nervous electorate in Israel.

But government after government at least said the right things about the need to create a Palestinian state and to make painful compromises, even if action lagged far behind the words.

It was possible to accept journalist Gershom Gorenberg's thesis that the occupation was an "accidental empire," its endurance shaped less by determined policies than by inertia and political cowardice. It was awful to watch even progressive governments cringe before an aggressive settlers movement, but it was understandable, especially for Americans accustomed to the timidity of our own leaders in the face of aggressive extremists.

The idea of apartheid suggests the intent to make separation and unequal treatment permanent, and in the past it was possible to argue that for all the expansion of settlements, Israel was still looking for ways to end the occupation.

No more.

Frightened by the last minute rise of the Zionist Union list in polls, Netanyahu unambiguously expressed what critics have long asserted was his core ideology: no Palestinian state. No territorial concessions. None. Period.

And Israel's voters returned him to office, in what was widely reported as a resounding victory.

He was returned to power despite his attempt to shore up support on his political right by coming to Washington and undermining the relationship with Israel's most critical ally, the United States, and by giving a huge boost to Republican efforts to make support for Israel a political wedge issue instead of the bipartisan cause it has always been.

He was returned to power despite the ugly attempt to scare voters with the specter of a big turnout of Israeli Arabs.

And he was returned to power after his crystal clear rejection of Palestinian statehood and the territorial compromise that most of the world believes is the only way to ensure a peaceful future for a democratic Jewish state. There were reports this week that Netanyahu was attempting to walk those comments back, but his credibility on the issue of Palestinian statehood, never strong, is nonexistent.

In the absence of any willingness to work toward a Palestinian state in the West Bank, the future is clear: continuing occupation with no effort to find a way to end it, accelerating settlement construction and a hardening of policies toward Palestinians in the West Bank.

In other words, apartheid.

Mainstream Jewish groups go ballistic when they hear the term because of what it implies: an official policy of unfairness so profound that a fractious world unites against it with sanctions, boycotts and a pariah label for the perpetrators.

Once, it was possible to argue that Israel's policies were not the same as apartheid because their stated goal, however imperfectly pursued, was to end the occupation. No more: Bibi's reelection makes it clear that Israeli voters, more clearly aware of Netanyahu's intent than ever, have chosen the apartheid path, and will now have to live with the consequences.

American Jewish groups, key players in the coalition against South African apartheid, will resort to verbal gymnastics to argue that it's not the same. Or they will simply use the convenient ploy of pointing out all the bad decisions made by Palestinian leaders over the years. When the inevitable violence erupts and when the Palestinians, left with no other options, renew their push to condemn Israel in international bodies, they will circle the wagons to defend a Jewish state they claim is unfairly treated by a hostile world. They will ratchet up efforts to stifle even moderate dissent in the Jewish world. They'll blame the deepening divisions in the Jewish community on J Street.

Or they will say the no-statehood pledge was just politics as usual in Israel's fractious democracy, as meaningless as most other campaign promises.

And nobody outside an increasingly narrow pro-Israel tent will buy it. Because apartheid is apartheid, and that's exactly what Israeli voters chose this week as a course for their nation.

James Besser was Washington correspondent for the New York Jewish Week and other Anglo-Jewish newspapers for 24 years before his retirement in 2011.
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

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Update:
The voting and distribution of Knesset seats is always followed by the 'winner' - usually the leader of the largest party - forming a coalition with smaller parties. That process has now been going on for almost six weeks, with Netanyahu taking his time, playing parties off each other, making his future coalition members sweat and trying to build a coalition with as much freedom and flexibility for himself as he can manage. The entire time it's seemed virtually certain that he would assemble a government with a 67 seat majority (out of 120) made up of rightist parties, religious parties and one center-left party, Kulanu. That was until Monday when Avigdor Lieberman, head of the now greatly diminished Yisrael Beiteinu party said F'it - and more specifically F'you to Netanyahu - and took his party's six seats into opposition.

From all the reports I have seen, no one seems to believe Lieberman is bluffing. There's intense bad blood between the two men, which seems to have been aggravated over recent weeks. And there's a decent argument that Lieberman's and his party's chances of revival are better served outside the government than in it. Regardless, it seems clear Lieberman is out. And that means that the maximum size of a Netanyahu government is now the same as the minimum number of seats he needs to form a majority, 61 seats.

He has zero margin for error.

Netanyahu has already used up the month he has to form a government and the statutory extension he can get from the President. The deadline for the extension is tomorrow night. If he can't seal a deal by then, President Rivlin has to give someone else a chance to form a government.

(Read the rest of the article here.)
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by Sue U »

There's intense bad blood between the two men, which seems to have been aggravated over recent weeks. And there's a decent argument that Lieberman's and his party's chances of revival are better served outside the government than in it. Regardless, it seems clear Lieberman is out.

***

We should have a clearer idea of what is happening by tomorrow afternoon US time. But suffice it to say for now that Lieberman, for whatever reason, just really screwed Netanyahu and made his life at a minimum a lot less fun.
Couldn't happen to two more deserving people. They can both go get bent.
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

Post by rubato »

Econoline wrote:From HaAretz:



Jimmy Carter was, and is right.




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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

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Netanyahu has already used up the month he has to form a government and the statutory extension he can get from the President. The deadline for the extension is tomorrow night. If he can't seal a deal by then, President Rivlin has to give someone else a chance to form a government.
Well, fingers crossed, but I wouldn't bet against Netanyahu in this situation...

He'd offer to let a party leader sleep with his wife or his daughter (or his wife and his daughter) if it would seal the deal for him to be able to hang on to power...
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

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Like I said, don't bet against Bibi in a back-to-the-wall situation...(he's a regular Tywin Lannister)

As he demonstrated in the last days of the election campaign, he'll do whatever it takes:
Benjamin Netanyahu forms a coalition government for Israel

Jerusalem (CNN)With just an hour to spare before a deadline, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced late Wednesday that he has succeeded in forming a coalition government.

According to Israel Radio, Netanyahu came to an agreement with the final party required for a coalition, the right-wing Jewish Home party, at 10:30 p.m. local time.

"During the last couple of weeks, I'm sure nobody has been surprised that these negotiations have gone on with all of the different members of the coalition," said Netanyahu to Israel Radio.

"And they should not be surprised that they're coming to an end, but the deadline is pressing. I'm leaving here to call the President and the head of the Knesset and tell them that I have it in my hands to put together a government."

President Reuven Rivlin, who spoke with Netanyahu over the phone at 11:10 p.m., thanked the Prime Minister and said, "I congratulate you on completing the formation of the government. I have received your letter of confirmation, and look forward to the convening of the Knesset as soon as possible, to approve the government."

Netanyahu's government is likely to be a right-wing government with 61 seats out of a 120 seats in the Israeli parliament, the bare minimum to form a coalition.

One of his primary coalition partners, Avigdor Liberman of the Yisrael Beiteinu party, announced in recent days that he was leaving the coalition and resigning his post as foreign minister, which would cut Netanyahu's coalition from a strong 67 seats to a weak 61 seats.

Netanyahu acknowledged the challenges of holding together a government of 61 seats in his interview with Israel Radio.

"I have to put [the government] together next week, which is something I have to do in order for it to be a strong government. I need the nation of Israel behind me. Sixty-one is a good number. Sixty-one plus is a better number. But it begins with 61. And we are beginning. There is a lot of work in front of us," said Netanyahu.

Herzog took to social media to blast the new coalition, calling it a "government without responsibility" and a "government of national failure" on Twitter.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/middleeas ... coalition/

So now Netanyahu has cobbled together a government that is hostage to the individual demands of every single individual person in every party in his coalition...

The good news is that this might not hold together for long...

ETA:

Of course if this falls apart, rather then go to new elections, he'll probably reverse course and try to forge an alliance with The House Of Herzog to keep himself on The Iron Throne...(Okay, maybe that's one Game Of Thrones analogy too many... :? )

What I really don't understand, is why any major player in Israeli politics...left, right, or center...

Would trust this guy to keep his word about any commitment he makes...

Two days before the election, he says, "no two state solution while I'm Prime Minister"...

Two days after the election, he takes it back...

And this isn't the first time he's pulled this kind of thing...he's made promises and alliances on numerous occasions and then gone back on them when it suited his purposes...

I wouldn't trust this guy as far as I can sling a Steinway...if I shook hands with him, the first thing I would do afterwards is count my fingers...

The only thing I can figure is, Netanyahu has been playing the byzantine game of Israeli politics for so long, that he has a very deep understanding of how to manipulate all the other players...
Last edited by Lord Jim on Thu May 07, 2015 6:43 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: And Now A Look At The Israeli Election...

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Apparently Netanyahu's major concession to Naftali Bennett's Bayit Yehudi (Jewish Home) Party is the Justice Ministry:
Netanyahu[...]agreed to appoint party leader Naftali Bennett as education minister, MK Ayelet Shaked as justice minister, and another Jewish Home member, Uri Ariel, to a third ministry, possibly agriculture.[...]Shaked will also have a seat in the key decision-making security cabinet, by virtue of being justice minister.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu- ... coalition/




It sounds complex...Why don’t they just adopt the system we have? ;)
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