chris christie...

[wesw]

....is a big fat idiot.

"it s hard to enjoy your civil liberties in a coffin" shuuuuuut uuuuuup!

you are not my frigging big brother and if you were I would punch you in the nose and make you cry , you big bully.

no asshole, the govts biggest duty is not to make us safe, it is to defend the country , for the purpose of preserving our hard won liberty. liberty from overbearing tyrants like you , governor. oh great and spiteful traffic jammer, just shuuuuut uuuuup!

I sure as hell don t want you (italics) to monitor the countries every communication, you big bully. you make rand paul look like an appealing candidate. you big puppet. who has their hand up your ass ? huh, who?

don t you even try to come off all patriotic when you want impose your spiteful little police state.

you want to go all founders on TV? ok asshole, here you go...

give me liberty or give me death, that s what the founders thought...

live free or die, that s what new Hampshire lives by....

those who would trade essential liberty for temporary safety are deserving of neither, that s what ben franklin thought. that s what makes us exceptional.

the president needs to protect or borders like a mastiff in his yard, but be be obedient and loving to all members of his houseld, all his masters, all those that he is charged with protecting. a mastiff who only goes as far as necessary to defend his patch, is not vicious, or mean, but is ready willing and able to stop all threats and tolerates no harm to come to his charges.

you sir, are a pitbull, willing to rip out any throat at your masters bidding. not to be trusted running loose. woe to any three yr old or old lady who crosses your path.

just shut up, please?

[Lord Jim]

Well wes, I couldn't possibly disagree with you more on this issue ...I think Christie makes an excellent point...

You can put me firmly in the Chris Christie, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Peter King camp on the NSA programs; I wouldn't change the procedures involved in the tiniest way...

I'm far more concerned about the people who want to kill us then I am about the government programs (programs with intensive oversight from all three branches of government; programs which have a proven record of playing a critical role in foiling terrorist plots, and about which not one serious allegation of abuse has ever been made) designed to defend and protect us.

So again, you can count me on the side of the people in both parties who are directly involved in the oversight of these programs, and who are in the best position to know the facts about their effectiveness, (and who to a man and woman support the programs) and not in the camp of the paranoid hair-on-fire types with their fantasies about "dictatorship" and those who pander to them...

Rand Paul is the big fat idiot...

[MajGenl.Meade]

wesw is older than I thought:

Fillmore La Nov 25th 1860

Old Abe Lincoln
God damn your god damned of hellfire of god damned soul to hell god damn you and god damn your god damned family’s god damn hellfired god damned soul to hell and god damnation god damn them and god-damn your god damn friends to hell god damn their god damned souls to damnation god damn them and god damn their god damn families to eternal god damnation god damn souls to hell god damn them and God Almighty God damn Old Hamlin to go hell God damn his God damned soul God all over everywhere double damn his God damned soul to hell.
Now you God damned old abolition son of a bitch God damned you I want you to send me God damn you about one dozen good offices Good God almighty God damn your God damned soul and three or four pretty Gals God damn you you
And by doing God damn you
Will Oblige
Pete Muggins

[wesw]

that was joe.....

[wesw]

I must disagree jim, rand paul is a skinny little twerp....

[Big RR]

Well I'll leave out the personal invective against Christies size, but I'll agree he is a major idiot.

And as for the surveillance, Jim I couldn't disagree more. You are willing to accept government assurances that it has not gone and will not go "too far" and that is has foiled many terrorist plots and attacks which the government just can't give us the details on. You also are willing to accept the government oversight as being effective. I am not willing to do either. Indeed, while I do agree Rand Paul is a jerk on many things, he is right here.

Face it, any time the government has usurped more power it has abused it throughout history, from the excesses of the Alien and Sedition Acts, to the dictatorial powers Lincoln took, to the grand expansion of powers to imprison under both world wars, the government has rarely used its powers with any restraint whatsoever; nor does it easily give it up.

To use Christie's imagery, I'd far rather be dead in a coffin than to live in one, a small box in which the government tells me what I can and cannot do.

Eternal vigilance is definitely the price of liberty, and we should be vigilant about the erosion of our civil rights in the name of safety and order.

[Lord Jim]

And as for the surveillance, Jim I couldn't disagree more. You are willing to accept government assurances that it has not gone and will not go "too far" and that is has foiled many terrorist plots and attacks which the government just can't give us the details on.

Big RR, you and I have ridden in this particular rodeo together so many times ol' buddy, that at this point I think we have pretty much both exhausted all of the arguments that can be made on both sides of this, and we're just not going to reach common ground...

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree...

[Big RR]

Absolutely. And, FWIW, I hope you're right and I'm wrong (even though I don't think so).

[wesw]

jim, you and Obama and santorum are in complete agreement on this one....

[wesw]

if you don t like the 4th amendment amend the constitution. otherwise, stay the hell out of our business....

[wesw]

chris Christie says...

(in my best Soup Nazi voice) .... no pot for you!

he s comin' for you Colorado.....

"roll a fattie, beat chris Christie" there you go Colorado, a free bumper sticker slogan for ya...

[Sue U]

Chris Christie will never be President nor, unfortunately, even the Republican nominee.

But you go, Chris! I'm sure the Bill Baroni and Bridget Kelly trials won't have any impact on your campaign!

N.Y. / Region
Ex-Official Says Chris Christie Broke Grand Jury Law

By KATE ZERNIKE
JUNE 7, 2015

The players at the center of the George Washington Bridge lane-closing scandal are not finished causing headaches for Gov. Chris Christie.

The latest indication comes in a sworn statement by David Wildstein, a former Port Authority official and the admitted mastermind of the access-lane closings, that describes Mr. Christie breaking the law as he exercised a heavy hand over state politics from the front office.

Mr. Wildstein’s statement, in a civil case separate from the federal prosecution in the bridge case, offers the first insider confirmation of a long-rumored tale of New Jersey political corruption, and places Mr. Christie at the center of it. It also portrays the governor, a former United States attorney, casually revealing information about a grand jury proceeding he had overseen, which violates federal law.

It reinforces nagging doubts about Mr. Christie just as he says he is preparing to make an announcement this month about whether he will seek the Republican nomination for president. Even apart from the potential violation of grand jury laws, the statement reinforces the image of Mr. Christie as an intensely hands-on manager who used the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs the George Washington Bridge, to deal with political problems. And Mr. Wildstein, a former political blogger who is known as a pack rat with a long memory, indicated that this may not be the end: His statement says he has emails and further “documents to be produced for inspection.”

A spokesman for Mr. Christie, Kevin Roberts, said on Sunday: “This is just the latest legal jockeying in yet another legal proceeding involving Mr. Wildstein, but one thing should be made clear: Anyone suggesting the governor disclosed grand jury information is either lying or mistaken.”

Mr. Wildstein pleaded guilty last month to federal charges in the lane-closing case in exchange for his cooperation with prosecutors. Mr. Wildstein’s lawyer, Alan L. Zegas, declined to comment on the statement.

The statement is Mr. Wildstein’s response to questions in a lawsuit by Gerard J. Speziale, who was the three-term sheriff in Passaic County when the Port Authority hired him in August 2010 for a $199,000-a-year job.

Mr. Speziale, known as Jerry, a colorful and often controversial former narcotics detective, was so popular in Passaic County that he had raised more than $1 million for his re-election campaign, despite only token opposition.

When he took the job at the Port Authority, he said he wanted to spend more time with his ailing wife, and pledged to donate the $600,000 left in his campaign account to charity.

His fellow Democrats cried foul, noting that it would hurt other Democrats on the ballot and remove his war chest, which could have been used to help other candidates. Calling for a federal investigation, one county freeholder, Bruce James, called it “nothing but a quid pro quo into giving out a government job in order to get somebody out of the race,” according to The Record, a North Jersey newspaper.

Democrats called it the long arm of Mr. Christie, but his office scoffed at that idea.

In the lawsuit, filed against the authority, Mr. Wildstein and several others, Mr. Speziale says he was brought into the job to root out corruption, but was harassed when he tried to reveal it. He ended up leaving for a job in Alabama that paid far less. (He recently returned to Passaic County as the police director in the crime-plagued city of Paterson.)

Mr. Wildstein’s statement, sent to lawyers in the case late Friday, says that in June 2010, Mr. Wildstein met in the governor’s private office with Mr. Christie and others, including Bill Baroni, then his boss and Mr. Christie’s top staff appointee at the Port Authority; Michele Brown, then the governor’s director of appointments; and Richard Bagger, then Mr. Christie’s chief of staff.

At the meeting, Mr. Wildstein says in his statement, Mr. Christie directed the Port Authority officials to fire Arthur Cifelli, who held the double titles of deputy superintendent of the Port Authority Police Department and deputy director of security, and to hire Mr. Speziale in his place.

“Christie told Wildstein and the others that he wanted to get Speziale to drop his re-election bid to help Republicans win the post, and to take Speziale’s campaign war chest,” the statement says.

The governor, according to the statement, told the others that he “would not have Cifelli working for his administration” and that Mr. Cifelli had perjured himself during the grand jury proceedings related to John Lynch, a former State Senate president who had been one of the most influential Democrats in the state.

Mr. Christie told those assembled in his office that he would first have to talk to David Samson, then chairman of the Port Authority board, “since Samson was friends with Cifelli and Lynch,” Mr. Wildstein says.

Under federal law, prosecutors may not identify people who have testified before the grand jury except in extremely limited circumstances, generally restricted to other law enforcement entities or proceedings.

The statement also reveals a list of about 40 people with whom he discussed Mr. Speziale’s hiring, duties and resignation — indicating that Mr. Wildstein was regularly involved in administration conversations, and not the lone-wolf operator that Mr. Christie has described.

That list includes the governor, Mr. Samson, other agency officials and Mr. Christie’s attorney general, chief counsel and several deputy chiefs of staff, as well as Michael Chertoff, the former secretary of Homeland Security, who was brought in to conduct a review of Port Authority security.

(Mr. Chertoff now represents Mr. Samson in a federal investigation surrounding accusations that he used his position on the Port Authority board to enrich himself, including getting United Airlines to reinstate a little-used flight to an airport near his weekend home in South Carolina.)

Under his agreement to cooperate with federal prosecutors, Mr. Wildstein is obligated to be truthful, including in any civil proceedings. He is to be sentenced in the bridge lane case this summer.

Last week, the two former Christie administration officials facing trial in that case — Mr. Baroni and Bridget Anne Kelly, a former deputy chief of staff — won a small victory when the United States attorney’s office said it would not object to their lawyers’ attempts to subpoena more documents from the law firm the governor hired to do an internal investigation after the scandal exploded in January 2014.

The firm and the administration said that the investigation had exonerated the governor. But members of the governor’s staff said they had been misquoted, or challenged its portrayal of characters and events. And the report left unresolved many contradictions between the accounts of key players.

Defense lawyers say they expect that the subpoena will produce notes showing even more contradictions, reviving questions about what the governor knew, and when, about the lane closing

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/08/nyreg ... .html?_r=1

[Lord Jim]

David Wildstein obviously has absolutely zero evidence that Christie broke any laws or he'd have brought forth that proof to cut a better deal by now. (His plea agreement involves testifying against the others who were indicted; nothing about Christie.)

One thing that's become very clear is that none of the people who were indicted in the Bridgegate scandal, has anything at all in the way of evidence that Christie did anything illegal. Three investigations over a year have also turned up zip. (Not to mention all the media types who desperately tried to find something on him.)

In fact Christie has been so thoroughly investigated, we can probably be more sure that there is nothing indicating any illegal actions by him than we can about any other governor in the country.

Christie is a victim of this just as much as the commuters affected by the bridge closure. The only thing he is guilty of is having made some poor appointment and hiring choices. Virtually anyone who hires as many people as a governor does will do so.

Unable to find any evidence of criminality, the Christie Haters have turned to vague smears accusing him of "creating an environment" or "fostering an atmosphere" in which people who work for him would think it was okay to do these kinds of things. But of course the proof for this accusation has been zero as well.

But while Christie has done nothing illegal, it is undeniably true that the actions of these other people have basically destroyed his candidacy. There are several candidates that appeal to the same voters that he does, with far less baggage. I think there's a real chance he may not even run.

[wesw]

jim, jim jim......

Christie is a victim of this?

Christie has done nothing illegal?

do you have access to all the court records and witness testimony?
or did your magic 8-ball tell you all this......?

[Lord Jim]

The no-indictment after lengthy intensive multiple investigations thing told me wes...

[wesw]

still a couple of trials to come yet tho, right?

stage setting for future indictments is not un heard of.....

[rubato]

The governor. The person to whom most of the people in the scandal reported. Is not involved. And you have deduced this from the fact that he has not been indicted.


I guess if you can believe Reagan knew nothing about the arms-for-hostages deal and Iran-Contra you can swallow that one too.


"…many false opinions may be changed for true ones, without in the least
altering the habits of mind of which false opinions are the result."
From: J. S. Mill



yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

There are many reasons why someone (especially the sitting chief executive of a state) is not indicted (or even presented to the grand jury) beyond a lack of guilt or culpability. Nixon was never indicted, but he was far from innocent.

Personally, I think he's guilty, but I also think he chose his lieutenants wisely--people who would fall on their swords rather than implicate him.

And the "creating an environment" allegation is not really silly or worthless; Christie's personality with all its pettiness is there for all to see, and I would imagine his advisors would know what he means when he says something like "maybe those guys should see what happens when they cross me". Again, the Nixon tapes show he did the same thing--just suggest to his staff that it was time for some payback and let his staff do the rest (giving him the mantra of "plausible deniability"). But absent a tape or smoking gun, this is difficult to prove. But it doesn't mean he is innocent.

Personally, I would love to see Christie as the republican presidential candidate, if only because he would be in way over his head and personally unable/unwilling to ask for any help; I would think he'd fail spectacularly. But as W taught me, be careful what you wish for.

[Lord Jim]

There are many reasons why someone (especially the sitting chief executive of a state) is not indicted (or even presented to the grand jury) beyond a lack of guilt or culpability. Nixon was never indicted, but he was far from innocent.

Trying A sitting President is a special case because of the potential separation of powers issues involved. Sitting governors are indicted and tried fairly frequently.

Personally, I think he's guilty, but I also think he chose his lieutenants wisely--people who would fall on their swords rather than implicate him.

Here's the problem with that theory; it's the way he trash talked these lieutenants after this broke...

It was after he did that, that I became convinced he was most likely innocent of any criminal involvement. The reason is that the only explanations for why he would do this are:

A. He was crazy

B. He wasn't involved, so he knew there was no way they could have any evidence that he was.

The lack of legal action against Christie pretty much confirms B....(And not only has there been a lack of legal action, relentlessness press investigations have also turned up zip.)

If you want somebody to "fall on their sword", the last thing you do is "throw them under the bus" and taunt, insult and mock them...

(Nixon called Haldeman and Erlichman "two of the finest public servants it has been my privilege to know." And Bill Clinton had nothing but praise for Susan McDougal.)

[Big RR]

If you want somebody to "fall on their sword", the last thing you do is "throw them under the bus" and taunt, insult and mock them...

True--but it's not in Christie's nature to do that, and I think his lieutenants know and understand it upfront (just like Mr. Phelps did when "the secretary will disavow.." was stated on the tape).

Trying A sitting President is a special case because of the potential separation of powers issues involved. Sitting governors are indicted and tried fairly frequently.

Both statements are arguably true, but then I cannot think of a time where a sitting governor of NJ was indicted; we do things differently here. Christie knows this from when he was sates attorney and McGreevey was governor. And McGreevey was a man whose support collapsed--even the dems ganged up on him after his resignation. Christie appears to still have significant support. it wasn't going to happen.