The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

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Econoline
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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by Econoline »

OK...first of all, Kirsten Powers' assertion is *NOT* that "the left" is "killing free speech"; the book's title seems to be a bit of attention-grabbing hyperbole provided by the publisher (let's face it, that seems to be a publisher's duty, nowadays). No, she only claims that liberals are stifling free speech, particularly that of political and social conservatives, on college campuses.

That premise is certainly at least debatable...and indeed it has been and is being debated on many college campuses and elsewhere. If you'd like to hear (or read) one such very thorough and intelligent debate to find out what both Ms. Powers &co. and her opponents are saying on this issue, here's a link to the audio, and here's a link to the transcript (PDF).

Yes, Jim: fact-based news analysis. On NPR.*

Here's NPR's description of this event, from their website.
There is agreement on both the political left and right that a majority of college professors in the United States are liberal or left-of-center. But do liberals stifle free speech — particularly that of political and social conservatives — on college campuses?

Social conservatives often argue that campuses, as a whole, are generally hostile to views that don't conform to the social and political left. Conservatives and evangelicals are rarely asked to speak at colleges and universities, they argue. And they point to numerous incidents where, when schools have asked conservatives to speak, those invitations have been revoked after clamor from left-leaning students and faculty.

But there are many who disagree with the premise that liberals quash intellectual diversity on college campuses. They argue that criticism is not censorship, but that conservatives too often label it as such. And when speech has been curtailed at colleges, they say, it's far more often by administrators seeking to quell or ward off campus disruption than by left-leaning students and faculty.

In the latest event from Intelligence Squared U.S., two teams faced off on in an Oxford-style debate on the motion, "Liberals Are Stifling Intellectual Diversity On Campus." In these events, the team that sways the most people by the end of the debate is declared the winner.

Before the debate at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., 33 percent of the audience voted in favor of the motion, 21 percent were opposed and 46 percent were undecided. After the debate, 59 percent agreed with the motion, while 32 percent disagreed, making the team arguing in favor of the motion the winner.

FOR THE MOTION

Greg Lukianoff, president of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), is the author of Unlearning Liberty: Campus Censorship and the End of American Debate and Freedom from Speech. He has published articles in The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The New York Times, Stanford Technology Law Review, The Chronicle of Higher Education and numerous other publications. He is also a blogger for Huffington Post and authored a chapter in the anthology New Threats to Freedom. Lukianoff is a frequent guest on local and national syndicated radio programs, has represented FIRE on national television and has testified before the U.S. Senate about free speech issues on America's campuses. He is a co-author of FIRE's Guide to Free Speech on Campus.

Kirsten Powers is a columnist for USA Today and The Daily Beast, where she writes about politics, human rights and faith, and the author of the forthcoming The Silencing: How the Left Is Killing Free Speech. She joined the FOX News Channel in 2004 and currently serves as a rotating panelist on Outnumbered and as a network contributor, providing political analysis and commentary across FOX News's daytime and prime time programming, including Special Report with Bret Baier and FOX News Sunday. She previously served as a columnist for The New York Post, a communications consultant at Human Rights First and for the New York State Democratic Committee, and vice president for international communications at America Online, Inc. From 1993 to 1998, Powers worked as deputy assistant U.S. trade representative for public affairs in the Clinton administration. She began her career as a staff assistant at the Office of President Bill Clinton, on the Clinton/Gore Presidential Transition Team.

AGAINST THE MOTION

Angus Johnston is a historian of American student activism and of student life and culture. An advocate of student organizing, he is the founder of the website StudentActivism.net. He teaches history at the City University of New York, where he received his PhD in 2009 with the dissertation, "The United States National Student Association: Democracy, Activism, and the Idea of the Student, 1947-1978." Johnston is particularly interested in student activism beyond the 1960s, in the history of student government and in the role of students in the university. He regularly participates in scholarly and popular discussions on these topics, and his writing has appeared in several journals and anthologies. He has delivered lectures and workshops on the history of American student activism to undergraduate audiences at colleges across the country. Johnston received his BA in history from Binghamton University.

Jeremy Mayer is an associate professor in the School of Policy, Government, and International Affairs at George Mason University. Most recently, he is the co-author of Closed Minds? Politics and Ideology in American Universities and co-editor of Media Power, Media Politics, 2nd Edition. He has written articles in several journals on topics such as presidential image management, Christian right politics, comparative political socialization and federalism and gay rights, and has offered political commentary to major networks and national newspapers. Previously, Mayer taught at Georgetown University and Kalamazoo College, where he won a campus-wide teaching award. He is a recipient of the Rowman & Littlefield Award in Innovative Teaching for the American Political Science Association, the only national teaching award in political science. He also has studied politics at Oxford, Michigan and Brown.



* Who do it better than any news source anywhere (except for, occasionally, the BBC).
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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by Guinevere »

Crackpot wrote:Meade

It was. Most even (even a fair chunk at NPR) think it was an overreaction and has remained a black mark on NPRs record
Actually, I think most (including Williams himself) think that NPR didn't engage in enough process with Williams. Which is probably true, but apparently not required under the terms of his contract. That still doesn't undercut the substance of the termination.
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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by Lord Jim »

* Who do it better than any news source anywhere
As a Liberal, I would certainly expect you to believe that... :ok
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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

wesw wrote:and to delve a bit deeper into meade s point....

how is saying that you are scared of being killed by people who repeatedly say, and demonstrate that they will kill you, racist or inflammatory?
You're not delving into my point or anyplace else for that matter. That's a dishonest statement you just made about "scared". No one here has even remotely intimated that being scared of "people who repeatedly say... that they will kill you" is bigotry. This chap I've never heard of until now didn't say that either.

What he said is that because he's scared of people who etc. etc. THEN he looks with suspicion on other people (who've said and done no such thing) because they just happen to wear similar clothing to people who etc. etc.

Is that a racist or bigoted statement? I don't think so and, if I'm reading posts here accurately, nor did NPR. He's not assuming that anyone dressed a certain way IS a rabid killer. He's worried that they might be. Now, if he proposed banning such people from airline flights, just because of their garb or their religion, then that's bigotry. Again, it appears from posts here that he was expressing such opinions elsewhere (on FOX) and that that ticked off NPR enough to get him fired.
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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by wesw »

RR, here are a few links, I pay attention. I m often wrong but I am not intentionally dishonest. I think that I should be assumed innocent of lying unless proven guilty...
I don t post links often, I prefer to let people try to prove me wrong, and learn more about the issue in the process of doing so...

Earnest to Karl On Hillary Promising To Go "Further" On ...



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/.../ea ... on_hillary...





RealClearPolitics




May 6, 2015 - JONATHAN KARL: And now Hillary Clinton is saying she will go further. ... Hillary Promising To Go "Further" On Immigration Executive Orders: ...


White House Skeptical That Hillary Can Go Further on ...



www.newsmax.com/...hillary-immigration/.../643057/





Newsmax Media




May 6, 2015 - White House Skeptical That Hillary Can Go Further on Immigration ... underlying Obama's November order specifically ruled out a move such ...


Clinton: I Will Do Everything Possible To Go Further On ...



washington.cbslocal.com/.../clinton-as-president-i-will-do-everything-po...



May 6, 2015 - Hillary Clinton said Tuesday that any immigration legislation must include a path ... president I will do everything possible under the law to go even further. ... events, urging her to pressure Obama to issue the executive orders.


White House sees no legal path for Hillary on immigration ...



http://www.politico.com/.../white-house ... r-hillary-...





Politico




May 6, 2015 - If a future president Hillary Clinton wants to go further than Barack ... Asked repeatedly whether additional actions would be illegal, ... A legal opinion underlying Obama's November order specifically ruled out such a move.


Despite prodding from Hillary, Obama will go no further on ...



http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...hi ... -immigrati...



May 6, 2015 - After Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton suggested ... Despite prodding from Hillary, Obama will go no further on immigration ... "The president started this program through executive order, he can end it any time ...


Hillary Clinton says Obama's immigration orders are 'just the ...



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Clinton- ... -reform-Ne...

Daily Mail




May 5, 2015

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by Guinevere »

Not a single one of those links works (except the DM one that links to a face transplant article). So either you're incompetent, or a dickhead. Stop wasting people's time and being disrespectful, wes, or else don't expect to get taken seriously around here.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by wesw »

well I copied them all from google, so I guess I m just incompetent, and a dickhead...

google "Clinton would go further on immigration orders" and they pop up like magic....


well crap, I guess I am incompetent at posting links, but you can get to them on google....

so I say again, Hillary says that she would go even further on immigration orders, it was all over the news, but just briefly for some reason....

she must have called her personal news anchors and put the kibosh on it...
Last edited by wesw on Thu May 28, 2015 5:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by Econoline »

Lord Jim wrote:
* Who do it better than any news source anywhere
As a Liberal, I would certainly expect you to believe that... :ok
Sheesh...that's the only part of my post you actually read???? :roll:
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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

What's so difficult that you couldn't open the links to make sure?

And why did you leave out the obvious one - NPR? http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolit ... mmigration
"I will fight to stop partisan attacks on the executive actions that would put DREAMers — including many with us today — at risk of deportation," she said. "And, if Congress refuses to act, as president I will do everything possible under the law to go even further."
Or the very first one that comes up

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/05/ ... migration/

OK I see your problem - you just copy the line underneath the title of the result. For example:

Clinton Vows to 'Go Even Further' Than Obama on Immigration
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/.../cl ... to_go_even..

That's not all the characters in the link. You have to click it open and copy the URL up in the top left corner
The full URL is: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 26504.html

When I post this, some of the characters will be left out of that URL automatically. I guess the systems like to keep 'em short
Putting some spaces in, it actually reads: http : //www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015 ... 26504.html
Last edited by MajGenl.Meade on Thu May 28, 2015 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by Joe Guy »

Guinevere wrote:Not a single one of those links works (except the DM one that links to a face transplant article). So either you're incompetent, or a dickhead. Stop wasting people's time and being disrespectful, wes, or else don't expect to get taken seriously around here.
Don't worry, wesw. If people were to stop taking you seriously, you could easily fix that. Just start dressing like a Muslim.

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by wesw »

lol, anyway....

it s interesting, you can call me a dickhead, a derogatory term for men, which is fine, but if I were to call someone ,say, a bitch, which I would not do, I would certainly be labeled sexist or misogynistic, by the left. I would be shouted down and silenced. by the left.

are you such a hardcore clintonite that you even deny the well documented things she said two weeks ago?

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by Guinevere »

wesw wrote:gob has hit upon an eternal truth.

bitchy women are good in the sack, but you can only stand them for so long without losing your self respect.

crazy women are amazing in the sack, but if you don t run for your life immediately , as soon as you wake up, you will end up either, in jail, getting beat up, and/or missing a body part....
Right, you never call anyone a bitch (this is from the first page of this thread, posted earlier today) . . . . I'm pretty sure (although not going to do you the courtesy of looking it up) that you referred to @W as a bitch as least once. Of course, if you disagree, prove me wrong.
Last edited by Guinevere on Thu May 28, 2015 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by wesw »

I knew I should have said bossy...

anyway, I m bitchy in the morning. there is I big difference between an adjective and a noun as you well know. I did not call anyone a bitch, just as you did not adreess any of the points made in my post

lawyers..... :)

eta- I m not actually bitchy in the morning, someone has to be cheerful in the morning around here.....

I used to be horribly bitchy after work tho....

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by Lord Jim »

There are two good ways that you can tell that a news source is relatively objective and unbiased...

First, people across the political spectrum all agree that it's unbiased and see it as fair...

Second, people across the political spectrum criticize it as being biased against their perspective, (meaning that they're offending everyone, pretty much equally)...

But when all the people who consider a news source to be objective and unbiased come from just one end of the political spectrum, (as is the case with NPR) that is either :

A. A remarkable coincidence

B. The natural tendency of people to view "news" sources that reflect their biases as "unbiased".

In fact I'll go further on that and say that in my experience this blindness to a bias in favor of their position is generally worse among liberals than it is among conservatives. I know plenty of conservatives who will admit that there is a conservative bias in much of FOX News programming, but off hand I only know one liberal who can see the fairly obvious liberal bias of NPR.

Is there even one liberal or leftist here who can see it it?
Last edited by Lord Jim on Thu May 28, 2015 8:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by liberty »

Sue, would William's comments have been bigoted if he had been talking white Southerners wearing the rebel flag?
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by liberty »

Guinevere wrote:
wesw wrote:gob has hit upon an eternal truth.

bitchy women are good in the sack, but you can only stand them for so long without losing your self respect.

crazy women are amazing in the sack, but if you don t run for your life immediately , as soon as you wake up, you will end up either, in jail, getting beat up, and/or missing a body part....
Right, you never call anyone a bitch (this is from the first page of this thread, posted earlier today) . . . . I'm pretty sure (although not going to do you the courtesy of looking it up) that you referred to @W as a bitch as least once. Of course, if you disagree, prove me wrong.
Isn’t bitchy slang for ill tempered?
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by liberty »

Guinevere wrote:I rest my case.
That's a very intelligent comment Guin. :roll:

That kind of reminds me of the circular logic that goes:

“Why can’t Johnny read ? He can’t read because he is dumb. How do you know he is dumb? Well, he can’t read.”
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by liberty »

Big RR wrote:Well sue, she calls herself a liberal and so does Fox News, so it must be true. :lol:

But I will agree, not all those who consider themselves liberal are civil rights/free speech advocates, just as not all conservatives are opponents of those concepts. It's been that way as long as I can remember, and throughout much of history. So Lib, what's the point you are trying to make.
I wasn’t ignoring you Big R. The thing is that my life is just crazy. I am so busy I can’t keep up, but I would not have it any other way. My mother asked me why I didn’t retire. I told her I am not going to retire I am going to die; that is, I am going to work until I die.


When I heard this woman on NPR she emphasized the point that these people on the left that oppose freedom of speech are leftist but not liberal. In her opinion one can’t be liberal and oppose free speech. I think she is splitting hairs.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by wesw »

liberty, my brother, that is a very dangerous view you have about working. I had a similar view.

a bit of background is in order I guess. ihave had back problems for many years. I first hurt my back while working a summer job after 11th grade. I mixed mortar for a brick layer and tossing around 70 pound bags of mortar was tough, but so was I . an 80 pound bag of concrete got me one day tho. crippled me for about two weeks, scared me to death, then I healed and went back to work.

anyway, that same ruptured disc kept coming back to haunt me in later yrs, I must have had 30 major blowouts of my back since then. i went to work bent over 90 degrees, i would work on my knees if necessary. the sciatica began in 1999 when i lived in MA, since then life has been a big old non stop painfest and ibuprofen party.

but that s not the bad part. people would say i was crazy for working so hard and what would i do in a few years? i told them, this was my standard line, i ll work as long as i can walk, then i ll go out in the woods and kill myself.

so i worked even harder. i always did the work of two men and tried to do the work of three when possible. i was good at working. other areas of life began to fall apart. and i ll tell you ,between the pain and my ego, i turned into a very unpleasant person. work became the measure my self worth, the only thing that made me feel useful after a while.

then in 2010 (jan 10th) i had to have my right lung removed. a rare non aggressive lymphoma of some sort. it took a while for the lab to even figure out what it was after my surgery. 3 months later, after my med leave was up, i went back to work. it was hard, but i got thru it for a while. i worked another two and a half yrs after that and discovered that the pain meds for my surgery helped my back, a lot. my surgeon got me into a pain program and it worked. my back had gotten horrible by then. i went yrs without sleeping more than a couple of hrs at a time. all of a sudden i was sleeping thru the night.

anyway, to make a long story longer, it caught up with me, i got a bleeding ulcer, dropped to a hundred lbs, kept getting pneumonia and eventually just walked away from it one day when i believed one more week would kill me. i had worked long enough to pay off most of the medical debts that the insurance company weaseled out of at least. it was easier to pay them off than to fight the insurance company , to me.

stopping work was not acceptable to me, but the steel shop was just too much so i started my own small business doing yard work, hauling, handyman work, light fabrication ..., what ever. i got a business license and everything! it actually went ok until winter, i wasn t making what i was used to, but enough, combined with holly s job, for us to survive.

when winter came the work fizzled out. holly filed my disability claim for me, i ws approved of course, but had to wait 5 months. 5 long months with no money, and no lump sum at the end either...

anyway, my self worth was all tied to my work by then. and all those years of saying i was gonna work as long as i could, then die, haunted me. i wanted to die. i felt worthless, i was a burden to my family, i was. so i drove them away. my twisted mind figured that if i made everyone hate me it wouldn t hurt so bad when i was gone.

then i saw the light. they loved me, not my paycheck. they still needed me(italics) not my money. they needed my love. so i became a househusband and have been trying to be loving and kind ever since, and have succeeded to a great degree.

the shame is still there, the shame of being a leech on society. when i work in my yard i feel like people are watching me and thinking that i should be at work. perhaps they are, i don t know... it s not so bad tho, i can handle a little shame to be there for my family.

don t be afraid to retire man, you can still stay busy and be useful. working yourself to death is highly over rated....

crap my hand is trembling, and it s not the early onset parkinsons, this time..., stupid welding fumes...

eta- dammit liberty, I m missing the last Imus episode.... :)

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Re: The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech

Post by Lord Jim »

Wow wes, after reading a post like that, it really makes me grateful for good health...

Hang in there...
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