the cuban conundrum for conservatives...

[liberty]

the Nova special on PBS a while back; they evaluated the known facts and forensic evidences? Their conclusion was that everything known and can be proved points to Oswald as the killer of Kennedy.

Lib I believe you're referring to Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald? which I used to tout back at the CSB...

It is the best examination of the Kennedy assassination ever done; it should be required viewing for any Grassy Knoller...

As far as Oswald's politics are concerned:

Yes, Oswald was a self pro-claimed communist, but the more important fact is that he was a malignant narcissist with delusions of grandeur....

Oswald moved to Russia, became a communist, moved back to the US, and started his one man "Fair Play For Cuba Committee" not out of deep ideological commitment...

But because he was a pathetic little man who thought he should be much more famous and important than he was, and these were all attempts to make him stand out and be more "noticed" and important...

As his efforts to satisfy this hunger repeatedly failed, he became increasingly desperate to achieve the fame he believed he deserved. That's why he tried to kill General Walker, and why he murdered JFK.

Jim, you don’t think that it is significant that the two men he tried to killed were both anti communist. I don’t see where one thought the other was not anti communist enough matters. Kennedy was trying to kill Castro that is anti communist enough for me. And, so what if Oswald was a narcissist communist I am sure they had several others.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I began reading the conspiracy literature in the mid-60s, notably Mark Lane's Rush to Judgement, and concluded that whatever else might be true, it was doubtful that Oswald acted alone. Over time, I've modified that conclusion to where I doubt that Oswald would have acted in any other way but alone.

He was a sociopathic loser despised by the Russians and, I have no reason to doubt, by Cubans and other communists alike. He was a loner, attaching himself with no loyalty to any cause other than his own self-inflated role as "crusader" for something or other.

His behavior in relation to politics reminds one very much of John Wilkes Booth - the difference being that Booth was a magnetic and charming man who genuinely organized a conspiracy with himself as the central (but not only) player. Both men saw themselves as some kind of eye-opening "savior" who would be recognized as having achieved something useful. Neither of them thought such recognition would come from the society in which they actually lived but from the society on whose 'behalf' they performed their acts.

Oswald no doubt thought in some vague way that his deed would be applauded within communist circles, particularly amongst the Russians who had considered him a nebbish and who were so heavily involved in Cuba themselves (even in November 63). Booth was certain his act would be applauded in the South (he was not himself a Southerner) and even amongst certain portions of the North he might at least get the credit for the motives of a Brutus.

In saying that Oswald acted alone, I do not mean to rule out the participation of anyone else. If anyone else were aware of his plan - if indeed he had been at all encouraged in that plan (and where's the evidence of that?) - and if his claim of being a "patsy" wasn't just a normal anti-police response rather than a sign of having realized he'd been so encouraged... well then, it's certainly possible a second gunman was on the grassy knoll or close to it and fired a shot. The involvement of a splinter group of the CIA seems most likely, IF anyone at all was involved other than Oswald.

And that visit to the Cuban embassy? One suspects another attempt to leave the USA behind and get to the "paradise" of communism that the Russians had shown was not to be found to the east. "Will you let me in if I kill Kennedy?" Sure - go kill Kennedy and come back some time; don't call us (you obvious agent provocateur).

Fifty years ago and more. Time to drop it and move on. Open the door to Cuba - send in the Coke and Microsoft invasion armies.

[liberty]

I began reading the conspiracy literature in the mid-60s, notably Mark Lane's Rush to Judgement, and concluded that whatever else might be true, it was doubtful that Oswald acted alone. Over time, I've modified that conclusion to where I doubt that Oswald would have acted in any other way but alone.

He was a sociopathic loser despised by the Russians and, I have no reason to doubt, by Cubans and other communists alike. He was a loner, attaching himself with no loyalty to any cause other than his own self-inflated role as "crusader" for something or other.

His behavior in relation to politics reminds one very much of John Wilkes Booth - the difference being that Booth was a magnetic and charming man who genuinely organized a conspiracy with himself as the central (but not only) player. Both men saw themselves as some kind of eye-opening "savior" who would be recognized as having achieved something useful. Neither of them thought such recognition would come from the society in which they actually lived but from the society on whose 'behalf' they performed their acts.

Oswald no doubt thought in some vague way that his deed would be applauded within communist circles, particularly amongst the Russians who had considered him a nebbish and who were so heavily involved in Cuba themselves (even in November 63). Booth was certain his act would be applauded in the South (he was not himself a Southerner) and even amongst certain portions of the North he might at least get the credit for the motives of a Brutus.

In saying that Oswald acted alone, I do not mean to rule out the participation of anyone else. If anyone else were aware of his plan - if indeed he had been at all encouraged in that plan (and where's the evidence of that?) - and if his claim of being a "patsy" wasn't just a normal anti-police response rather than a sign of having realized he'd been so encouraged... well then, it's certainly possible a second gunman was on the grassy knoll or close to it and fired a shot. The involvement of a splinter group of the CIA seems most likely, IF anyone at all was involved other than Oswald.

And that visit to the Cuban embassy? One suspects another attempt to leave the USA behind and get to the "paradise" of communism that the Russians had shown was not to be found to the east. "Will you let me in if I kill Kennedy?" Sure - go kill Kennedy and come back some time; don't call us (you obvious agent provocateur).

Fifty years ago and more. Time to drop it and move on. Open the door to Cuba - send in the Coke and Microsoft invasion armies.

No General, what do they have that we need? Their sugar so we can put our own producers out of business or their cigars so we can have more cancer. They would love giving us cancer and making money our of it. I say again, no normalization until Castro is dead. What would have happened to us if they had won the Cold War?

[MajGenl.Meade]

lib - could you desist from quoting entire paras when all you're doing is indicating you're responding to the person quoted? It takes up too much room on my screen.

(a) nice beaches
(2) some classic cars
(iii) yer a bit of a twat sometimes but then, which of us isn't?
(lastly) If "they" (the Cubans?) had won the cold war we'd all be doctors in Liberia

[wesw]

well, I have met some amazing doctors. mostly American and indian, but there were times that I would ve given quite a lot to trade up to a nice Cuban doctor. I hate to be a bigot, but I ve never met a Pakistani doctor that I would ever go to twice. there was one African fellow who must ve purchased his medical license from Robert Mugabe....

[MajGenl.Meade]

The "lib is wesw" dossier just got another entry, Scully

[Lord Jim]

or their cigars so we can have more cancer.

I'm not a big cigar smoker, (I generally only smoke cigars when I'm playing poker; my father was much more fond of them) but I have had occasion to smoke a few Cuban cigars that I picked up in Mexico...

And I have to say that they're quite lovely; they have a rich chocolatey flavor to them...

My favorite line about Cuban cigars comes from former General and Secretary of State Alexander Haig who, when questioned about the seeming hypocrisy of his smoking Cuban cigars said:

"I prefer to think of it as burning them to the ground..."

[liberty]

[quote="MajGenl.Meade"]lib - could you desist from quoting entire paras when all you're doing is indicating you're responding to the person quoted? It takes up too much room on my screen.

Ok, general, for you I will do that even if you are a Yankee scum general .

[Lord Jim]

Ok, general, for you I will do that even if you are a Yankee scum general .

I believe you're referring to The War Of Northern Aggression...

[liberty]

Ok, general, for you I will do that even if you are a Yankee scum general .

I believe you're referring to The War Of Northern Aggression...

Yea, Yankee imperialist running dogs. (Mao was a murdering communist bastard, but he had a way with words)

[MajGenl.Meade]

I'm sure you all mean the War of the Rebellion

[Big RR]

or their cigars so we can have more cancer. They would love giving us cancer and making money our of it.

Lib, you honestly believe that? We have stores full of cigars which people can smoke (often Cuban transplants from the DR, Honduras. and Nicaragua), and somehow I doubt opening the market to Cuban cigars will attract more cigar smokers. Whole Jim is right about the attraction of Cuban cigars, cigars are an acquired taste and most first time cigar smokers would not particularly like the cigars from Cuban--they'd go after the flavored or more mild cigars produced in the US.

[liberty]

error

[liberty]

or their cigars so we can have more cancer. They would love giving us cancer and making money our of it.

Lib, you honestly believe that? We have stores full of cigars which people can smoke (often Cuban transplants from the DR, Honduras. and Nicaragua), and somehow I doubt opening the market to Cuban cigars will attract more cigar smokers. Whole Jim is right about the attraction of Cuban cigars, cigars are an acquired taste and most first time cigar smokers would not particularly like the cigars from Cuban--they'd go after the flavored or more mild cigars produced in the US.[/quote

The point is what do they have that we need? They answer is nothing. Anything we would buy from would be charity; should you provide charity to the enemy; that is not strategically wise. They may say they love us, but don’t believe it. To them we are criminals. Remember when the US was put on trial in the Swedish war crime trials?

[MajGenl.Meade]

You don't know much about subversion, do you? Or history. Remind me again when it was that Cuba invaded the USA? Oh, no, wait... it was the USA that encouraged, armed, equipped and created the invasion of Cuba! Shucks! Now why on earth would Cuba regard the USA as an enemy?

Back to subversion... if they are an enemy, then they must be neutralized. There's two ways - annihilate them or convert them. The USA policy of the 60s and on was to isolate (and simultaneously try to assassinate Castro). I believe they could have purchased that revolution and created their own little communist ally in the Caribbean by making it dependent upon US goodies. All the Soviets could do was send weapons. We should have been sending food, consumer goods, building need for what the USA had - stuff and freedom - instead of fantasizing about returning to the heady days of a fascistic dictator, oppression, casinos and the playground of the mafia and the CIA.

Sometimes lib, one country becomes friends with another country not because it has "what we want" but because we have what they want - decency. (Naïve of me, huh?)

[liberty]

You don't know much about subversion, do you? Or history. ?)

Well General, you want to talk history do you. Remember the battle of Stalingrad? How many Germans prisoners were taken and how many manage to returned home? Wasn’t it something like over a hundred thousand taken prisoner and less than five thousand returned? What do you think happened all those that didn’t return? They would have done the same to us; to them we are fascist. How are the communist any better than the Nazis?

Or history” is not a sentence it is missing a verb. You could write it as bullet statement, but then you would not us standard punctuation.

[MajGenl.Meade]

lib, Stalingrad has nothing whatsoever to do with Cuba - that's just changing the subject.

Cuba is a little island in the Caribbean - I don't see them as ever surrounding the USA, starving us into submission and then letting only 5% live. But if it happens, give me a call.

[Crackpot]

Well I suppose I should look at the bright side this proves I don't work with the stupidest people in creation.

[liberty]

lib, Stalingrad has nothing whatsoever to do with Cuba - that's just changing the subject.

Cuba is a little island in the Caribbean - I don't see them as ever surrounding the USA, starving us into submission and then letting only 5% live. But if it happens, give me a call.

General, never underestimate an enemy; true they have a small population, but China doesn’t. They have a nice little island base down there, kind a like Britain in WWII. I will leave the rest to your imagination at least you have one unlike another poster here.

Also, you can’t buy love contrary to what some think?

[MajGenl.Meade]

Gee, thanks.

China has a nice little island base - meaning Cuba? Really? Well all the more reason for the USA to cosy up, subvert the regime and ... what? Guantanamo? No way!