Passing?

[Lord Jim]

Not a big Surprise that Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton would be coming to the defense of a fellow liar....

[BoSoxGal]

I didn't say the positions were reserved for people of color, Big RR.

How would you feel if you hired an employee who you later learned had been so colossally dishonest?

It's about her integrity, not her spray-on tan. She resigned from the NAACP position, no doubt, because of the protest that was planned for outside Monday's meeting if she had not. By members. Of various colors.


She's a liar, whatever else she is. Liars don't really deserve to be leaders - we shouldn't use the many Congresscritter liars as an example of anything but what to avoid at the local level.

[Lord Jim]

The whole issue here is the dishonesty...

To draw an analogy:

If somebody put on their job application that they went to Harvard and they didn't go to Harvard, no one would say, "That's okay because going to Harvard wasn't a requirement for the job"....

[oldr_n_wsr]

I now self identify as "not an alcoholic".
At tonights meeting I will introduce myself, "Hi, I'm oldr_n_wsr and I am NOT an alcoholic".

[MajGenl.Meade]

If somebody put on their job application that they went to Harvard and they didn't go to Harvard, no one would say, "That's okay because going to Harvard wasn't a requirement for the job"....

They would in South Africa... if the person is black... and a member of the ANC... being given a government job... at a high level... and related to or obligated to a person whose name rhymes with Boomer.

[Lord Jim]

She also done an interview with MSNBC's Melissa Harris-Perry....

It airs in its entirety tonight at 5PM Pacific Time, but based on the extended excerpts MSNBC has been running I doubt I'm going to watch it. Harris-Perry, (who is in no way a journalist; even a part time one. She's a college professor and the host of a weekend opinion show) lets Dolezal ramble on and on while she sits there nodding and tossing in an occasional softball set-up question for the next ramble....The whole thing seems very touchy-feely...

Melissa's making Matt look like Edward R. Murrow....

I'd like to see Rachel go up against Anderson Cooper, or Megyn Kelly, or Erin Burnett...

Any of those three, (and several others I can think of) wouldn't let her get away with this crap; they'd come prepared with everything she's done and said, re-ask questions that weren't being answered, cut her off when she started to wander completely off topic, and follow-up with more detailed questions based on her answers and evasions.

But she's probably too smart (pathological liars are frequently also very intelligent) to let herself be interviewed by somebody like that.

[Big RR]

The whole issue here is the dishonesty...

To draw an analogy:

If somebody put on their job application that they went to Harvard and they didn't go to Harvard, no one would say, "That's okay because going to Harvard wasn't a requirement for the job"....

I see a difference; attendance at a major university is something that goes toward one's qualification for a job; if someone applied for a job as a checker at the grocery store and said they went to Harvard, I wouldn't see it as too serious a lie--if they said it to get a judgeship, I would. However, saying one is black may or may not have anything to d with a job; if Chris Christie said he weighed 140 lbs, would it make him any less qualified to be president? I don't think so. Ditto for Reagan denying he dyed his hair. Yes it's a lie, but there are lies I think are not all that much of a problem, and others that clearly are. IMHO, a lie that is of little or no consequence falls within the first group.

Was her saying she was black a lie of little or no consequence? I don't know, but I don't see any evidence that it was anything more.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Lieing is not something that we should tolerate. While her lies do not affect me at all, they did affect someone. And I agree there are small lies and big lies but I have no idea where this falls.

[wesw]

she said she grew up in a teepee hunting with a bow. in an earlier post it was said that she copied art and claimed it as her own. I m no psychologist but...... lies!!! all lies!!!!!

[MajGenl.Meade]

Yeah all this discussion caused my excellent joke about Turner to drift off into oblivion.

[Lord Jim]

if Chris Christie said he weighed 140 lbs, would it make him any less qualified to be president? I don't think so.

It sure would for me...

It would tell me that he was completely delusional; just like Dolezal.

[Big RR]

Well Jim, whether someone is delusional or not is an entirely different thing; but then a delusional person believes what they are saying to be the truth, so they are not lying. I thought we were talking about someone deliberately lying.

Oldr--I see your point, but I think we all lie. Sometimes to save people's feelings ("no, you look great in that dress"; "you look just as young as when I last saw you 20 years ago"); sometimes to save people ("No Mr. Nazi, there are no jews hiding in there"; "No, I haven't seen your escaped slave"); sometimes because it doesn't make a difference ("I don't think everyone gets the same mileage but my car gets 75 mpg because I'm such a good driver", "I can lift 350 lbs"); sometimes to hurt someone ("Did you know Joes is a communist/Mary is a witch"); sometimes to get a benefit we wouldn't otherwise be entitled to ("You shortchanged me $20", "I'm a doctor").

I guess we each have to draw the line, but personally only the last two categories bother me, and the first two are desirable even if they are lies.

[wesw]

sorry meade, I haven t had time to keep up with south African politics, what withkeeping the Empire going and all. but the bushmen of the kalhari, the Zulus, the masai , the pygmies and the tuaregs are about to make their presence known in the Empire.

...and there will be Hobbits..... Indonesia must play it s part too.....

[BoSoxGal]

I have to say Big RR, I'm surprised you keep arguing that Ms. Dolezal's actions were of little to no consequence.

1) Sued Howard claiming race discrimination - two courts found her allegations to be unfounded and to some degree, factually untrue. (Was ordered to reimburse Howard for costs, in part because she refused to participate in an independent medical/psychological exam that was court-ordered . . . hmm, I wonder why?)

2) Began passing herself as black and in the process estranged herself from her parents (who would not participate in her lie) and then falsely (according to her siblings) accused them of being violent toward her.

3) Lied about who her father was, lied about his experiences with law enforcement.

4) Lied about being subject to racial attacks via the mail.

5) Plagiarized at least one of her paintings; who knows how much more of her art was stolen from other artists?

6) Lied about her brother being her son - did so again just this morning on the Today show.


Probably more I'm forgetting, but I think that's enough. She probably suffers from NPD or BPD or some other psychological personality disorder. Yes, she did good works while involved with NAACP and the civil rights movement in WA, but she's destroyed her reputation by all the lies, lies, lies - and I can't find it anywhere in myself to apologize for her behavior, because it's just reprehensible. I have compassion for her obvious mental illness, I think she should get help, I don't care if she wants to identify as black - but she needs to work on the pathological lying thing. ASAP.

[wesw]

for the first time in a long time I agree with every thing that bigsky said, especially the part about the lady being not quite right. I don t know what, or if any, outside influence damaged her, but I believe she deserves compassion (tho I have given her very little up til now).
I also believe that she must admit her own role and fault in this matter before that compassion will do her any good.

[Joe Guy]

I'm sure there are large number of people who deceive others about their personal life and are working at positions that can affect other people. Fortunately for them, most don't have parents that want to destroy their careers.

Now that the information is public, she has no choice but to quit. If her secrets had never been made public, chances are she would have continued doing a good job and eventually retired from the position on her own terms.

[wesw]

she said that her parents beat her with a baboon whip, and her adopted siblings. the severity increased by the darkness of their skin according to her. the parents kept her little secret for years and only spoke up after the press found them in connection with the hate mail fraud.

[Econoline]

The whole issue here is the dishonesty...

To draw an analogy:

If somebody put on their job application that they went to Harvard and they didn't go to Harvard, no one would say, "That's okay because going to Harvard wasn't a requirement for the job"....

Bingo. And I'm sure nothing like that ever happens. People obviously don't ever lie about their background when applying for a job, because that would be really unusual and it would be all over the national and international news whenever it happened.

[MajGenl.Meade]

she said that her parents beat her with a baboon whip, and her adopted siblings.

It's bad being beaten with a baboon whip but to be beaten with one's own adopted siblings - that's just doubly cruel

A baboon whip? I've not seen baboons being whipped - usually the tourist guards at the Cape carry a catapult and drive the baboons away with a few well-aimed er... well, not ball bearings... maybe clay pellets

[liberty]

Let her write a book; I suspect she has the time.