The Debate Rules

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Lord Jim
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The Debate Rules

Post by Lord Jim »

The last two Republican presidential nominees aren’t happy about how the next one will be selected.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and Sen. John McCain are criticizing the Republican National Committee and the TV networks hosting the first two GOP primary debates this summer for setting limits on participation. Under rules adopted by Fox News and CNN in consultation with the party, only the top 10 in national polls will make the main stage, with the balance of the at least 15 candidates in the race relegated to second-tier forums.

“I think if you had these rules in 2007, I may never have been able to be the nominee of the party in 2008,” McCain told TIME.

“I think that it basically shuts out, obviously people who aren’t well known, but it also diminishes the importance of a state like New Hampshire, where people can come out of no where through their performance in the state and be successful,” McCain added.

Romney criticized the debate criteria Friday evening in an interview with Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly at his E2 Summit for Republican donors according to attendees, saying they artificially narrow down the field.

The RNC took control of the debates process as part of its response to its 2012 defeat, believing that the 23 debates held that cycle [there will be a total of 9 this time; which is more than enough.]weakened Romney in the general election and that they served less as a venue for debating policy solutions than attempting the character assassination of rivals. But it left the final determination of the selection criteria up to the networks.

Several Republican candidates, including Sen. Rick Santorum, Sen. Lindsey Graham, former neurosurgeon Ben Carson and Gov. Bobby Jindal have been critical of the debate reforms, and have called on the party to take steps to allow all the candidates to participate. McCain, who is backing Graham, and Romney suggested holding back-to-back debates with candidates randomly divided between the two.

“It’s time to revisit this situation and make sure we are not fostering a process that eliminates a candidate before they’ve had a chance,” McCain said.

Republican National Committee Chief Strategist Sean Spicer defended the debate rules.

“The largest number of presidential candidates that has ever been on a stage in either party is 10. We are pleased that both Fox and CNN have recognized the quantity of highly qualified candidates in our party and have sought to create the most inclusive scenario by giving any candidate polling above 1% time on the stage to have their voice heard,” he said.
http://time.com/3920543/mitt-romney-joh ... n-debates/

I agree with Mitt and John; I am completely opposed to the approach FOX and CNN are taking. I understand the problem of 18-20 candidates on a debate stage being unwieldy, but it is ridiculous to use national polls this early to make determinations about who the most "serious" candidates are.

What national polls measure now more than anything is name identification. In what universe are Ben Carson and (lord gimme strength) Donald Trump, more "serious" candidates, or more likely to actually be nominated, then John Kasich or Lindsay Graham? It's ludicrous. The premise that this approach will yield a "first tier" made up of the more serious candidates with the best chances to be nominated is fatally flawed. (Any serious minded person is surely going to be much more interested in hearing what Graham and Kasich have to say then crackpot yoyos like Trump and Carson.)

What they should do is just put everybody's name in a hat and divide them into two groups based on random selection. (They almost never ask each other questions in these debates anyway) And then if they have 90 minutes of debate time allocated, give 45 minutes to each group. (Determine which group goes first with a coin toss.)
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

“I think if you had these rules in 2007, I may never have been able to be the nominee of the party in 2008,” McCain told TIME.
Which might mean something (a) if he hadn't picked Palin and (2) had won
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

rubato
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by rubato »

It's the RNC, the networks are just going along with what the RNC wants. Read it again.


The RNC is driving that little clown bus.


yrs,
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Lord Jim
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by Lord Jim »

No rube, the networks set the rules, but the RNC went along with it, (which they shouldn't have).
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Sue U
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by Sue U »

Even 8 candidates on stage at one time is too many. They should do brackets, like NCAA basketball; it would even probably generate some interest in the candidates by way of office pools.
GAH!

rubato
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by rubato »

wrong again, sorreee.


".. The RNC took control of the debates process as part of its response to its 2012 defeat, believing that the 23 debates held that cycle ... "
"... Republican National Committee Chief Strategist Sean Spicer defended the debate rules. ... "
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ken-wa ... -2016-race
Leaders of the Republican National Committee are trying to limit participation in the debates in order to give more exposure to real contenders rather than dark horses and long shots, and to preserve the eventual nominee's viability. Party leaders fear that a free-for-all in debate season would divide the party, prolong the nominating process, and probably result in a weakened nominee. GOP leaders want to avoid what happened to 2012 standard-bearer Mitt Romney, who was roughed up by his GOP opponents during a lengthy nominating process. This damaged him for the general election, which he lost to President Barack Obama.

The RNC wants the TV networks that are sponsoring the first round of debates to impose limits on who participates, and the networks are obliging. If the first two debates were held today, some candidates with potentially important things to say would be excluded because their standing in the national polls is so weak. And this would hurt their credibility. "At some point, if you're not in the debates you're not a legitimate candidate," Matt Moore, the South Carolina Republican chairman, told The Wall Street Journal.

yrs,
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Lord Jim
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by Lord Jim »

(CNN)CNN and the Ronald Reagan Foundation and Library announced Wednesday the details of a September debate featuring candidates for the Republican nomination for President.

The Sept. 16, 2015 event will be divided into two parts featuring two groups of candidates. One grouping will feature the top 10 candidates according to public polling, and the other will include candidates who meet the minimum threshold of 1 percent in public polling but are ranked outside the top 10.

READ THE CRITERIA

The debate will take place at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California and will air live on CNN, CNN International and CNN Espanol. The Salem Radio Network will broadcast the debate.

"We support and respect the decision CNN has made," Reince Priebus, chairman of the Republican National Committee, said about the debate's format.

On Wednesday, Fox News also released details of its Republican debate in August. Ten Republicans polling the best in national polls will eligible for that event.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/20/politics/ ... es-debate/

You would think that even the densest of ninnies would realize that if the party were setting the rules rather than the networks, that the rules would be uniform for each debate, when of course they aren't....

You would think that, but apparently you would be wrong....

What the party has done, (quite sensibly) is cut down the overall number of debates, (as I mentioned earlier down to nine; I'd have gone with maybe six)

Apparently the distinction between setting the number of debates and setting the individual rules for the debates is too complex for some folks to grasp...

Though it really seems quite obvious...
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Sue U
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by Sue U »

Sue U wrote:Even 8 candidates on stage at one time is too many. They should do brackets, like NCAA basketball; it would even probably generate some interest in the candidates by way of office pools.
Dang, already done, in a couple of ways:

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GAH!

wesw
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by wesw »

that first bracket is very well done. I didn t look at the second, but the first is set up so that the sensible people face the nutters early. I like it....

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Lord Jim
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by Lord Jim »

Who the hell is Everson?
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Sue U
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by Sue U »

From WaPo (click on this here linky thing for the internal links and video.:
The Fix
Mark Everson enters the 2016 race, because sometimes random people run for president
By Philip Bump March 5

There are a lot of reasons to run for president. Some people run for president because they want to marry Lil Wayne. Some people run for president because they like talking about old work e-mail. Some people run for president because they are legitimate candidates that have a real shot; some do it as a lark, because they're goofing around or are perhaps a bit emotionally unstable.

But then there's a middle ground — people who seem to actually think they might be able to somehow pull off the miracle that every first-grader is told is possible and every high school freshman realizes isn't: That they might be able to get elected despite no one ever having heard of them.

Meet Mark Everson.

Former IRS commissioner Mark Everson entered the 2016 presidential race with this ad. (Mark for America via YouTube)

Everson was commissioner of the IRS for four years under President George W. Bush, and the energy and charisma that job must have required is conveyed in the video announcing his presidential bid.

Let's talk about the video above for a second. If you haven't clicked play, you are encouraged to do so, at least for the first little bit. (Are we the only ones that think the desire of Web users to watch videos is vastly overstated? No?)

Here's what happens. Two affluent-looking women are moping around a nicely appointed house, talking about their Feelings About America, as one does. The mopier of the two frowns into her coffee mug. "Why even bother voting?" The other pulls out her pricey iPhone 6 Plus. "Here," she says. "Get inspired by this." A video plays, and some man that she has not heard of begins intoning about the constructive solutions our country needs. Starting with: Bold tax reform! Or, more accurately: bold tax reform.

No one on God's green Earth could fault a viewer of this video message for feeling a bit overstimulated.

Mark Everson will not be our next president. Mid-tier presidential campaigns — or, probably more accurately, just-above-bottom-tier campaigns — can often be attention-seeking plays more than anything, moves to try to land some other job or to bolster the value of an endorsement or whatever move to accumulate political capital is most appealing to the "candidate." But Everson went all out, with a nice Web site and a professionally produced introductory video. It cost money! What's the play?

Not to twist the knife, but Everson is also awfully forthright about some of the skeletons in his closet, right off the bat. Which detail do you think people who spend a lot of time on his Web site are more likely to point out to friends over a cup of coffee: His dryly delivered points about simplifying the tax code or the bit on his "Additional Issues" page where he mentions in passing that a former lover aborted a child of his and that his marriage failed (though he doesn't draw a line between the two). After he left the IRS, he ran the Red Cross — until an affair with a subordinate became public. That sort of thing might hobble a top-tier candidate, much less one that has as close a view of the top tier as we on Earth have of the planet Jupiter.

Democracy is an amazing system, and amazing things can happen. Telling small children that they too might be president is technically accurate and instills a sense of pride in a system that doesn't always warrant it. But democracy is also a heavily cratered battleground that constantly lures the vain to destruction. Run for president. But know that the reception will not necessarily be as warm as the one emoted by the actresses you hired.
GAH!

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Gob
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by Gob »

When's my turn?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

Sorry, you are not a citizen. You can vote in the election but you can't run in it. :mrgreen:

dgs49
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by dgs49 »

Regardless, the winnowing process will be difficult. I see a lot of good candidates and some who should just STFU and go home (e.g., Mr. Trump).

I would be much more satisfied, and the Party much better served, if we could revert to the times when the nominee was chosen in a "smoke-filled room."

rubato
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by rubato »

dgs49 wrote:Regardless, the winnowing process will be difficult. I see a lot of good candidates and some who should just STFU and go home (e.g., Mr. Trump).

I would be much more satisfied, and the Party much better served, if we could revert to the times when the nominee was chosen in a "smoke-filled room."

List the 'good' ones?


Go ahead.


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wesw
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by wesw »

vote john Kasich!!!!!

dgs49
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by dgs49 »

Kasich (my personal choice)

Walker

Rubio

Christie

Bush45

Perry

ALL head and shoulders preferable, and better qualified than HRC. To have sat in a seat is not the same as having accomplished something while sitting there.

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Lord Jim
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Re: The Debate Rules

Post by Lord Jim »

Perry
I'll tell you something interesting about Perry...

I saw Perry in a debate with former Maryland Governor (and current Democratic Presidential candidate) Martin O'Malley on Crossfire on CNN about a year ago...

It was the first time I had seen Perry in an extended interview format since his woe-begotten campaign...

I was amazed...

The man had facts and figures rolling lucidly off his tongue like butter....

He was not only completely in command of the facts about Texas, he knew more about what O'Malley's record in Maryland was then O'Malley did...

(I can say this with some confidence because O'Malley never challenged the points Perry made as being incorrect, he just tried to make excuses...I got the impression he was blindsided by Perry being so prepared)

After watching that performance, I said to myself:

Where the hell was this guy in 2012?

If this guy had shown up in 2012 (rather than the chuckle-headed "Governor Oops" who promptly fell flat on his face almost as soon as he entered the race, and couldn't even remember which departments he wanted to eliminate) with the job creation record Texas had, and his strong qualities as a campaigner, we might be talking about "who are the Democrats going to put up against President Perry?" today...

My understanding is that part of the reason he was so awful in 2012, (on top of having done no advance preparation prior to getting into the race) is that he was recovering from back surgery and was still on pain killer medication...

Here's a tip...

Don't try to run a serious campaign for the Presidency if you're on pain killer medication... :?
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