oregon allows 15 yr olds to get sex changes without consent

[Crackpot]

Uhh thats the whole point of the procedure.

[Guinevere]

So wes, in the context of the article you linked in the OP and the information Joe and I have provided, do you still think this is an accurate statement?

actually Fox and Al-jazeera have more actual info than most sources, you just have to be well informed enough to not be influenced by the inherent biases .

[wesw]

well, if you answer my question I ll answer yours......

do you support the state giving hormones to 15 year old girls, to inhibit natural body development, without parental consent?

stop beating about the bush counselor.

[rubato]

so, do you think that the state should provide hormone therapy to young women of 15 years, to prevent normal body development, without parental consent) that is the rule, not the law, in Oregon. do you agree?

that is the question. you can deride me if you want. it does not change the truth.

Has the state of Oregon provided hormone therapy to pubescent girls (in order to) to block the development of female secondary sexual characteristics? No?


The truth is you don't give a rats ass about the truth if it interferes with your bullshit emotional reactions to things.


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

The general age of consent for medical procedures in Oregon is 15. That means anyone 15 or over does not require parental consent to sign the required paperwork for *any* medical procedure.

Does this mean that a 15 year old girl in Oregon can get a boob job if she wants to, without parental consent? A tummy tuck? a nose job? Can a teen who thinks they're too fat get an intestinal bypass? Can a 15 year old boy who thinks he'll never want to be a father get a vasectomy? Can a 15 year old girl get her tubes tied?

(Frankly I don't think most of those procedures should be allowed to 15 year olds even with parental consent)

So 15 year olds, with their un-fully developed adolescent brains are considered "mature enough" too make a life altering (literally) decision like getting a sex change operation, but have to wait six more years to legally be able to decide whether they want to have a beer...

To me the larger story here is the state of Oregon's mindless, counter-logical, one-size-fits-all policy that says "anyone 15 or over does not require parental consent to sign the required paperwork for *any* medical procedure"

A minimal application of commonsense would seem to indicate that at least some thought should be given to the nature and severity of the "procedure"...

[wesw]

we can t all be sociopaths rube......

[Guinevere]

The general age of consent for medical procedures in Oregon is 15. That means anyone 15 or over does not require parental consent to sign the required paperwork for *any* medical procedure.

Does this mean that a 15 year old girl in Oregon can get a boob job if she wants to, without parental consent? A tummy tuck? a nose job? Can a teen who thinks they're too fat get an intestinal bypass? Can a 15 year old boy who thinks he'll never want to be a father get a vasectomy? Can a 15 year old girl get her tubes tied?

(Frankly I don't think most of those procedures should be allowed to 15 year olds even with parental consent)

So 15 year olds, with their un-fully developed adolescent brains are considered "mature enough" too make a life altering (literally) decision like getting a sex change operation, but have to wait six more years to legally be able to decide whether they want to have a beer...

To me the larger story here is the state of Oregon's mindless, counter-logical, one-size-fits-all policy that says "anyone 15 or over does not require parental consent to sign the required paperwork for *any* medical procedure"

A minimal application of commonsense would seem to indicate that at least some thought should be given to the nature and severity of the "procedure"...

Do you really think that a 15-year-old can walk into a doctor's office and demand one of those procedures like it's hailing a cab? Do you understand the concept of "medical necessity" both for physicians and insurance companies? Do yoy think, if a 15-year-old found a doctor to do one of those procedures on demand they could pay for it out of pocket?

Or are you really just playing wes' game of hiding the ball and changing the point because neither of you want to admit Fox "News" did a shitty job researching and covering the changes in Oregon?

[wesw]

boy, I walked right into the "demonize fox" trap, didn t I?

[Econoline]

More like the "demonize biased news sources" trap...

[Guinevere]

OFFS. You said this, based on the article you linked:

if you google key words- Oregon transgender consent, you will get pages of other links, going back to oct, I think, but fox affiliates were the only ones that had it today, on the first google page. apparently it was just announced publicly, had been the policy since January, and there was no public debate before the policy was enacted.

I knew I should have just reported it and let you guys decide to Google it for yourselves, or not....

The information Joe and I posted shows:

1. The "policy" was announced as early as August 14, 2014.
2. The development of the policy was done in open meetings, publically announced, with agendas and materials also publically available.
3. Public meetings are precisely the place for "public debate" and provide exactly that opportunity.

This reminds me of an argument I had in court just yesterday. The plaintiffs are complaining that my client refused to accept a certain environmental report their engineers created. My client held a noticed open public meeting to discuss the report, but neither the plaintiffs, their engineer, or their lawyer attended. At that meeting, the Town's engineer reported why the report was crap, and counsel for another interested party provided an engineer's report with a contrary determination. My client, after lengthy discussion, accepted the second report. Isn't it plaintiffs' fault they didn't show up at the noticed open public meeting to advocate for their report?


I found that information which contradicts every assertion you/Fox make, with two minutes of searching, while I was half asleep (woken by the rain and a Swede). You would think a reputable news outlet, with paid researchers and reporters, could have done the same. Instead, it appears their intent was to generate hysteria and misinformation. Do you think that's appropriate behavior for a news outlet?

[Lord Jim]

Do yoy think, if a 15-year-old found a doctor to do one of those procedures on demand they could pay for it out of pocket?

If I suggested lowering the legal age for buying a hand gun to 12, (and without parental consent, on top of that) would you say, "That's fine with me, since very few 12 year olds will be able to afford one"?

Somehow I doubt it...

It seems to me that when the defense of a policy is, "it probably won't happen that often" it's probably a highly questionable policy....

(BTW, I haven't read the FOX article; my points are being made based on the policy piece you quoted)

[MajGenl.Meade]

It certainly isn't appropriate for a news outlet - but is par for the course with Fox so you know................

[Guinevere]

You're picking and chosing my points, you've misrepresented what *I* said, and you're comparing apples and pineapples. Purchasing handguns does not come even close to being analogous to medical procedures performed by a licensed physician.

ETA: I'm not the one that said it doesn't happen very often. I'm sure it doesn't. But its backed up my current medical science, so that's good enough for me.

Also, lets be clear - this is not Oregon *paying* for these procedures, this is allowing insurance coverage -- but still requires medical consent and agreement to even do the procedures in the first place.

[Guinevere]

Meade, have you been taking liberal pills or something?

Whatever it is, it's good. Take more.

[MajGenl.Meade]

It's on the warnings for my Arthur Itus pills - Notify your doctor in case of stomach bleeding, ulcers or turning pinkish.

[Big RR]

Wes--there are plenty of medications that do that; and those medications are usually given for many good reasons as medically indicated. Personally, I'd rather have a requirement that the treatment be medically ordered than parentally approved--clearly the physicians are in a much better position to determine what sort of treatment is medically necessary or not than most parents are. And if the age of con sent is 15, I don't really see a problem with it.

[wesw]

well, RR, I appreciate your forthright post....

[BoSoxGal]

Wes--there are plenty of medications that do that; and those medications are usually given for many good reasons as medically indicated. Personally, I'd rather have a requirement that the treatment be medically ordered than parentally approved--clearly the physicians are in a much better position to determine what sort of treatment is medically necessary or not than most parents are. And if the age of con sent is 15, I don't really see a problem with it.

Exactly!

This is a decision for the patient, with the advice of responsible physicians. Given the potential for harmful parental reaction to gender dysphoria, I'm totally okay with Oregon's guidelines.

[wesw]

I would think that psychological counseling would be more beneficial to a teen who wants a penis or vagina or breasts removed or added to their body.

I m pretty sure that Caitlyn jenner is just as nuts as bruce jenner is.....

[MajGenl.Meade]

..or perhaps 2 less?