The big conversation

[wesw]

your argument is heartfelt yet still not valid. I wasn t defending rubato, I was defending grammar..., as a hole.

I had assumed that Merriam Webster was somewhat of an authority on such things....

what was your support again? some ornithology book, which remained un named?

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well, I don't care much for grammar myself. But merely because a bird eats prey does not make it a "bird of prey". This from Wiki states the case succinctly:

Taken literally, the term "bird of prey" has a wide meaning that includes many birds that hunt and feed on animals and also birds that eat very small insects. In ornithology, the definition for "bird of prey" has a narrower meaning: birds that have very good eyesight for finding food, strong feet for holding food, and a strong curved beak for tearing flesh. Most birds of prey also have strong curved talons for catching or killing prey

A gull is not a bird of prey - it has webbed feet which are not so good at holding food.

An example of this difference in definition, the narrower definition excludes storks and gulls, which can eat quite large fish, partly because these birds catch and kill prey entirely with their beaks, and similarly bird-eating skuas, fish-eating penguins, and vertebrate-eating kookaburras are excluded

Gulls and snakes are predatory but they are not raptors.

A raptor is a bird of prey. The word raptor comes from the Latin root that means "to seize and carry away", and is assigned to any bird that kills with its feet. Hawks, eagles, falcons, osprey, and owls are all raptors.

Definition:

(noun) A carnivorous bird of prey that hunts and kills other animals for food, including small birds, fish, mammals, lizards and insects. The Latin word “raptor” means “to seize or capture” and describes how these birds hunt with their large, strong talons and sharply hooked bills. Raptors are also powerful fliers

[BoSoxGal]

Nevertheless, gulls are well known for diving for food and taking it from a human's hands, even. My inclusion of them in my statement that people should protect small animals from gulls and other birds of prey is accurate, and did not justify rubato's claim that I was in error because 'birds of prey' are doves and quail - THAT assertion is most definitely 100% incorrect. Doves and quail can BE prey, but they are NOT 'prey birds' or 'birds of prey'.

[TPFKA@W]

[wesw]

rubato did not say that quail are birds of prey tho....

he said "prey birds" are quail. he said that you should have said "predatory" birds instead, and was absolutely, positively right.

[Gob]

[BoSoxGal]

rubato did not say that quail are birds of prey tho....

he said "prey birds" are quail. he said that you should have said "predatory" birds instead, and was absolutely, positively right.

(Prove it. Actually, I'm so sick of your stupid posts littering the board, I've put you on ignore so don't bother, at least not for my sake.)

All you've done is mis-use the dictionary definition. Post one single reputable ornithological resource that uses the term 'prey birds' in the fashion you suggest.

Oh wait, that would require work, and intelligence. So I won't hold my breath.

wesw, you're a real idiot and most of what you post here is stupid. I have friends from college who work in the field in ornithology . . . do you really think I care about your 'opinion' of science?



eta: I think it's noteworthy that rubato isn't the one defending his statement. I think that's because rubato, who is a scientist, understands that my usage was not, in fact, incorrect.

[wesw]

geez, you are worse than Obama, when it comes to admitting you are wrong.

it s ok tho, bigsky, I forgive you. anger ruins my judgment at times too. it can be overcome tho. you haven t burned your bridges. I should have stopped once I had made my point. sorry for pushing it.

[wesw]

Pets like the tortoise should not be let outside without sufficient protection from ALL prey birds; it could just as easily have been a raptor that tried to eat that turtle.

Same with those little teacup dogs - hey idiots, your dog is a perfect snack size for a raptor or any other bird of prey, like a gull! Why don't YOU take responsibility for keeping your pet safe, instead of getting all batshit crazy when a bird of prey acts like a bird of prey???????

This is nothing more than a story about stupid people.

I think you mean 'predatory' birds unless you were concerned about being pecked to death by quail.


Gulls killing and eating dogs and cats is nature's way, the great wheel of life in action, but NOT HURTING TURTLES! Hurting turtles is wrong. And another thing, one of those dogs was NAMED after a pudding and the other one is called a 'wiener dog' for a reason.


yrs,
rubato

ps- I only quoted you, or tried to explain rube s comment,I never said "prey birds" on my own, as anyone who reads the thread will see, unless you edited your post. but rube quoted you anyway, as seen above.

[rubato]

Uh, nope.

Prey birds = birds of prey = predatory birds


This isn't rocket science - try Googling some ornithological sources if you don't believe me and my one-semester-shy of B.S. in Zoology educational background.

birds of prey = predatory birds; is true.

Prey birds = food for birds of prey; is also true.

Prey
an animal that is hunted and killed by another for food.
"the kestrel is ready to pounce on unsuspecting prey"
synonyms: quarry, kill

Prey species are species which are preyed upon. Frogs are prey for egrets and herons and in turn prey upon mice bugs and crawfish.


Birds of Prey, prey upon Prey birds.




yrs,
rubato

[wesw]

I think that we are all missing the most important thing in this thread....

.... my first ever use of the quote function.

[Lord Jim]

Prey species are species which are preyed upon.

Correcta mundo!

This construction:

Prey birds = birds of prey = predatory birds

Is completely incorrect...

[BoSoxGal]

I maintain my usage is correct based on years of amateur study of ornithology, as well as interaction with real live ornithologists. Perhaps we are all incorrect in our habit of usage, or perhaps you few with some less-than-compelling credential are. Opinions will differ.

Finis.

[TPFKA@W]

Rubato is 100 percent correct. Not that certain folks can deflate their heads long enough to acknowledge that.

[BoSoxGal]

rubato's assertion doesn't even make logical sense - ALL birds are prey. Predatory birds often kill and eat other predatory birds. There is no specific category of birds that are prey. There are no birds that are NOT prey to some other species, whether other birds, deer (yes, they raid songbird nests and eat fledglings - did you know that? You would if you studied ornithology even a little bit!), etc.

Saying certain birds are 'prey birds' in the meaning rubato asserted is just. not. accurate.



People who wallow in stupidity just so they can fight with other people they don't like really still belong in Jr. High School.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Let osprey

Our feathers
which are indigestible
Owls be to blame
Hawking doom come
The quills cast down
as they cause heaving
Give us this day
our daily gull
and falcons their ptarmigans
as we fall on the tortoises of others
let us not be taste sensations
but deliver us from eagles
To dine on the prey birds
The pets and the gory
We hover and hover
Ah lunch!

[BoSoxGal]

[wesw]

let s not change the subject. we were disparaging your poor usage of the word. don t try to make it about rubato s clever joke about YOUR usage, counselor......

....arguing with you is (italics) like getting pecked to death by a quail.