Let's get tonight's comedy show, er, debate, started off:

[Crackpot]

You were heading the wrong way

[wesw]

must have been on my way back then.....

[Lord Jim]

There was a lot of comedy

The biggest laugh line of the evening was delivered by Rand Paul when he said:

"I'm a Reagan Republican"....

[Big RR]

Well, I don't think it's that much of a stretch; I think the term is used to identify republicans that are fiscally conservative, strongly pro business and free market, and rejecting much of the social conservatives' agenda. Sure, he has some differences from other positions Reagan held, but these are the ones that identify Reagan republican; indeed, I think a lot of the persons who crossed over from the dems and left leaning groups to vote Reagan in might find him the most attractive of the republican lot.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I was flipping channels on the radio during break today and on WABC (770am) someone filling in for Heraldo Rivera kept saying "X hit it out of the park". (didn't hear who candidate X was)
I hate when they use that term.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I am no political junkie like LordJim is so I have no way of telling who won. I can't even figure out who I like at this point. But it's only the end of hte first inning so there is plenty of time and much more info coming out before I have to decide. Only thing I know is I won't be voting for Hillary Clinton.

[Lord Jim]

Well, I don't think it's that much of a stretch

Actually it's a stretch of interstellar dimensions...

You mentioned a number components of Reagan Republicanism, but you left out one of the most defining and important; support for a strong national defense. You can not be a supporter of a national defense and national security policy that is to the left of Bernie Sanders (as Paul is) and honestly call yourself a Reagan Republican. No way. (Paul is also far more radical in his views on the proper limits of government, and far less willing to make compromises than Mr. Reagan ever was.)

Paul's mendacious assertion was nothing but a transparently cynical attempt to make his views seem less radical than they genuinely are, by associating himself with an icon of mainstream conservatism. The claim is an insult to Mr. Reagan. The idea that if he were still around to comment, that he would look at Rand Paul and say, "there stand a man who genuinely reflects my philosophy of governance" is preposterous.

Mr. Reagan had lived through America's last bout with isolationism, and saw what it resulted in. Isolationism was anathema to him.

[Big RR]

Isolationism was anathema to him

Perhaps, but he was a lot more pragmatic on defense issues than you give him credit for; he left after the 1983 Beirut bombing (he didn't march in guns blazing to show that you cannot attack Americans), he waffled for a while on the Falklands even though he claimed we had a special relationship with the UK(after all, Argentina was anti-communist); and he (or at least his administration) sold arms to Iran (not all that long after they took our hostages) to secure the release of other hostages. He was pragmatic enough to recognize that military defense doesn't trump (no pun intended) all and that sometimes other policies have to govern.

[Guinevere]

An interesting night. Trump was appalling, and it was clear the moderators were out to make sure his true colors come through. Whether or not they are obvious to the rest of the country remains unclear.

It was clear to me that none of them are actually running for President, but are running to be the vanquishers of Hillary Clinton. I'm perfectly ok with that, too.

Cruz is a frightening man, exceeded only by Huckabee, who obviously has no clue about the 5th and 14th amendments and what they do. The two of them, plus Rubio and Walker, who claim to care about "life" clearly only care about and want to protect fetuses. Once the child is born, they wash their hands.

Kasich was obviously trying to be "nice" but that can't be a long-term political strategy. And I wanted someone to call him on his "I balanced the budget" claim. He was the chair of the House budget committee under Gingrich, and while he may have come up with the plan, it took far more than he to get the legislation enacted and signed.

Paul and Carson are jokes, at least when it comes to governance. Neither made a convincing showing that they belong on the stage. Go back to medical school, guys.

Bush looked uncomfortable and like he didn't want to be there. I noted, in the background bullet points flashed on the screen, he worked for both Barclays and Lehman, plus sits on a Bloomberg board. That will play *really* well in the general election.

Rubio looked like he was there as a member of the college debating team. He was the most fluid and articulate, and also clearly the least experienced. I appreciated his nod to HRC's background and his concession that she would easily win the contest as the most experienced candidate.

Most of Christie's lines have been stolen by Trump. He has no place to go, and will be one of the first of these "top 10" to sink into the lower tier.

[Big RR]

Guin--it's far too early in the campaign for me to watch any debate, but re Christie, my guess is that he's waiting for trump to fully self destruct and then come in as the more experienced straight talker to claim those who Trump has attracted. I doubt it will work, but he seems to be pretty quiet lately.

[wesw]

I ve seen Kasich talk about the balanced budget numerous times and he usually makes a point of saying that the congress and Clinton worked together to balance the budget.

last night he chose to leave Clinton s role out of his speech, which was politically savvy considering the setting....

[Lord Jim]

While Trump's dishonesty and boorishness in responding to Megyn Kelly regarding his comments about women have gotten the most post debate press coverage, I think the way Chris Wallace got him to show his ass a little while later on his completely made up claim about the Mexican government having a policy of deliberately sending rapists and murderers into the US made him look even worse:

WALLACE: Mr. Trump, it has not escaped anybody’s notice that you say that the Mexican government, the Mexican government is sending criminals — rapists, drug dealers, across the border.

Governor Bush has called those remarks, quote, “extraordinarily ugly.”

I’d like you — you’re right next to him — tell us — talk to him directly and say how you respond to that and — and you have repeatedly said that you have evidence that the Mexican government is doing this, but you have evidence you have refused or declined to share.

Why not use this first Republican presidential debate to share your proof with the American people?

TRUMP: So, if it weren’t for me, you wouldn’t even be talking about illegal immigration, Chris. You wouldn’t even be talking about it.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: This was not a subject that was on anybody’s mind until I brought it up at my announcement. [Oh, you're so right Donald; the issue of illegal immigration was completely absent from the American political dialogue until you cleverly discovered it. It was never discussed, never an issue in any political campaign. Bless you, for bringing this previously unheard of problem to the attention of the American people.] And I said, Mexico is sending. Except the reporters, because they’re a very dishonest lot, generally speaking, in the world of politics, they didn’t cover my statement the way I said it.

The fact is, since then, many killings,murders, crime, drugs pouring across the border, are money going out and the drugs coming in. And I said we need to build a wall, and it has to be built quickly.

And I don’t mind having a big beautiful door in that wall so that people can come into this country legally. But we need, Jeb, to build a wall, we need to keep illegals out.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

[Having had his question completely ignored by that bloviating non-answer, Chris tries again:]

WALLACE: Mr. Trump, I’ll give you 30 seconds — I’ll give you 30 seconds to answer my question, which was, what evidence do you have, specific evidence that the Mexican government is sending criminals across the border? Thirty seconds.

TRUMP: Border Patrol, I was at the border last week. Border Patrol, people that I deal with, that I talk to, they say this is what’s happening. [The border patrol Donald? Really? The border patrol? How the hell would any frontline border patrol officer possibly have access to that kind of information? More ass gas from the Donald. Some reporter should go down and ask the border patrol officers Trump has met with which one of them told him the Mexican government has a deliberate policy of shipping murderers and rapists into the US...I'm betting they won't find one.] Because our leaders are stupid. Our politicians are stupid.

And the Mexican government is much smarter, much sharper, much more cunning. And they send the bad ones over because they don’t want to pay for them. They don’t want to take care of them.

Why should they when the stupid leaders of the United States will do it for them? And that’s what is happening whether you like it or not.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

WALLACE: All right. Obviously there’s a lot more to talk about this. We’re going to have more questions for the candidates on illegal immigration, plus other key topics including your questions on Facebook.

http://time.com/3988276/republican-deba ... full-text/

[Lord Jim]

And I found this particularly galling....

Trump finally starts to get asked the kinds of questions he should have been getting from reporters since the day he announced, (about his piggish comments directed at women, about his completely unsubstantiated accusations, about his personal finances and bankruptcies, etc.) and what does big, tough, Donald Trump do? He whines like a little bitch:

Trump Rails Against 'Unfair' Debate Questions From Fox News

Following the first Republican presidential debate on Thursday night, Donald Trump lamented that the Fox News hosts were tough on him, especially Megyn Kelly.

"The questions to me were far tougher, and that I — supposedly, according to what everyone’s telling me, I won the debate, according to the call-ins and everything," he told reporters after the debate, according to Buzzfeed News. "But the questions to me were not nice, I didn’t think they were appropriate, and I think Megyn behaved very badly personally."

He told reporters that his experience at the debate wasn't worth calling Fox News boss Roger Ailes over, but he insisted that the moderators were particularly tough on him.

"They weren’t even questions, they were statements that they asked," he said, according to Buzzfeed News.

He added that Kelly's question about comments he has made to women was "unfair." And he lashed out at Kelly on Twitter following the debate.

Friday morning on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," Trump continued to criticize Kelly's line of questioning.

He said that if the Fox moderators were going to be tough on him, they should have hit all of the candidates with hard questions.

"I walked out of that room and people were saying that was really unfair," Trump told "Morning Joe" over the phone.

He said that he was "very surprised at Fox News," but said that he "will live with it."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/d ... air-debate

And even more galling, from what I've heard on the news today thousands of his brain dead fans have been lighting up social media, agreeing with him about how unfairly poor sweet Donald was treated....

Three cheers for Kelly and Wallace. I wish they had a full hour to go at him. It is my fervent hope that their questioning will start a trend where reporters finally start giving this loud-mouthed snake oil salesman the kind of scrutiny he deserves.

[rubato]

The loudest positive reactions from the, mostly republican, crowd were to Trumps most gynophobic comments.

The republican base are all-in for Trump.

The war against women is on again.



Yrs,
Rubato

[Sue U]

Hahahaha, Hillz is so totally trolling these clowns:



My take on the de-bait is that absolutely everyone on that stage came off poorly. Trump is such a fascinatingly horrifying presence that as soon as it was over, nobody was going to remember anything else about the event -- and Trump has been making sure of that ever since. His approach is that any publicity is good publicity, and he wants all the publicity there is, duh, because he is a megalomaniac.

¡Jeb! was the biggest surprise, coming off as a total cypher. I had actually expected him to make more of an impression.

Carson was inane, Paul insane, Christie lame, Cruz was from outer space. I though Rubio actually talked the best but looked wet behind the ears -- Hillz would eat him alive in the general. The Very Serious Candidate John Kasich came across as an out-of-touch grandpa who still just can't understand why homosexxicans are "that way," but guesses he's just gonna have to grit his teeth and make the best of it.

What I found particularly offensive was how the candidates all had to prove how hard they loved Jesus and how each was more Jesus-y than the others. We're not voting for Jesus for President -- or are we???!!!?!?!!?!?!

What I found particularly stupid was all the chest-thumping about how they all had or were going to "de-fund Planned Parenthood," as if that were something to be proud of. Since no federal money is going to pay for abortions anyway (and abortion is only 3% of the services provided), all defunding Planned Parenthood would actually do is make it harder for young and poor women in under-served areas to get cancer screenings, STD prevention, birth control and other routine OB/GYN services. Using GOP "logic," they should also de-fund every hospital in the country that also performs abortions (that's pretty much All of them, Katie) and every research facility that uses fetal tissue. Goodbye vaccine development, Parkinson's and spinal injury treatments, genetic disease research, diabetes cure, stroke treatment and a hundred other medical advances! Way to go, GOP! Fucking up healthcare and science to pander to the radical anti-choice "base"!!!!

[Guinevere]

Standing O, take 2.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I thought that "defund Planned Parenthood" drum-beat to be totally out of touch with real life requirements. I dislike abortion intensely and view it as murder but to me one of the functions of Planned Parenthood is to obviate the need for abortion - a key function. I venture to suggest PP does more to prevent abortion than most laws do.

Iran - that nuclear deal sucks. Iran is laughing all the way to the bank. I find it unforgivable (unless there's some surprise "to come" quiet release going down) that this administration abandoned US citizens in Iran whose release should have been a condition. Plus it's a rotten deal anyway.

Obamacare. Lots of problems - lots of advancement - can't they do it better now some of the hiccups have been discovered?

Homosexxicans - I must have missed that.

Jesus - nothing wrong with admitting it - it's not a closet issue. Why, there may even be some Christian democrats out there... (ducks and covers) (joking). But I sure hope we don't start hearing any of 'em claiming to do God's will or follow His advice as if they heard a voice. Love your neighbor as yourself. That's good enough for politics.

If Hillary runs, one of these has my vote - Kasich probably. If it's not Hillary, I'll have to think more about the option

[Lord Jim]

My take on the de-bait is that absolutely everyone on that stage came off poorly.

Standing O, take 2.

Oh dear...

I take that to mean that no potential GOP nominee could win your support...

What a crushing and demoralizing blow this will be to all of them, as I'm sure that they were counting on winning the votes of those who embrace your philosophies to carry them over the finish line to victory... *








*just in case anyone missed it, that was "sarcasm"....

[MajGenl.Meade]

[Guinevere]

double post deleted