Obama Not Coming Clean On BP Oil Spill

[oldr_n_wsr]

People who kill themselves in the face of a minor difficulty (see above for examples) have done something disgraceful, to be ashamed of. They have been weak when their families and community needed them to be strong and help each other out.

I would venture to guess, that people calling this a "minor difficulty" are in a very small minority. If not, do you think the feds would call on billions of dollars from BP (and themselves) to fund the help?
I am not arguing what they "should have done". Clearly comitting suicide is not the answer.

Having been through an earthquake where the houses on both sides of mine were totally destroyed and mine was rendered uninhabitable I can say from experience that is when we need each other. Police and fire were overwhelmed in the first 30 seconds and outside help would not arrive for a long time. I shut off the gas for my house and then went up the street shutting it off where the pipes were obviously damaged and likely to leak, I finished my side of the street and started down the other one and met the neighbor across the street with his wrench doing the same thing. I was glad to see him because it meant someone else was trying to sort through what we needed to do to keep things from getting horribly worse; if a fire started it is doubtful if the fire dept would get there at all.

What you did is commendable but was the "knee jerk" reaction to the situation at hand and in the first moments after the disaster. People do amazing thing "right away" but find themselves lost afterward. Plenty of people were all over the place helping after 9/11 only to have difficulty coping after the immediate job was completed.

From a volly's point of view there are at least three stages of a disaster. First stage deals with the immediate situation at hand with no thought process at all. Most people either freeze here or go do without even thinking of what happens next.
The second stage is to handle immediate needs of those around, medical, food, shelter etc.
Only after all the pressing needs does the third stage kick in, "what am I going to do now? How can I continue when my livelyhood has been pulled out from under me with no end in sight? The people commiting suicide did not do it an hour/day/week after the disaster. They did it when reality of their dire situation kicked in and I am sure after much thought.

People who kill themselves in a major difficulty or disaster I can be more sympathetic with.

As I said before, this was/is a major disaster IMHO.

[Andrew D]

The desperation never ends. Now rubato claims that my question to him was "not 'squarely asked' but buried". Well, just look at it. The posting in which I first posed the question starts like this:

Worse than an over-generalization, it is fundamentally misanthropic.

What does rubato seriously think that these people should do?

Those are the first two lines of that posting.

Does that question look "buried" to anyone here?

[Andrew D]

Setting aside rubato's ludicrous claim that my question was somehow "buried," there remains the question itself. The question is:

What does rubato seriously think that these people should do?

Having failed to present any straightforward answer to that question, rubato now claims that the answer is somehow in this:

I think more highly of the courage, capability and resourcefulness of my species than you do. I think we have an obligation to face the challenges of life in a manner which gives heart to others. The Cajuns are an especially tough, independent, and resourceful people with a broad range of skills. They settled one of the most challenging landscapes in N. America and made their way with little help from, or even contact with, the larger world. We all have to adapt and change and they have a long record of proving that they can do so as well. Many industries which they formerly depended on have disappeared, like hunting ducks for the meat trade, killing egrets for the hat makers, and collecting spanish moss to stuff furniture with.

Huh?

The answer to "what should these people do?" lies in a combination of true but platitudinous bromides and true but unhelpful history? Seriously?

Okay, "we have an obligation to face the challenges of life in a manner which gives heart to others." I'm not sure what the source of the "obligation" is, but I agree that facing the challenges of life in that manner is a good thing. Okay, "Cajuns are an especially tough, independent, and resourceful people with a broad range of skills." No dispute there. Okay, "they have a long record of proving that they can do so [i.e., adapt and change] as well." No dispute there either.

Where is the answer to the question?

I'm a shrimp fisherman. I make my living -- and a hard living it is -- going out into the Gulf and harvesting shrimp. I feed and house and clothe my family by going out into the Gulf and harvesting shrimp. My father made his living harvesting shrimp, and so did his father and his father's father and my mother's father and my mother's father's father.

Now, suddenly, I can't make a living harvesting shrimp from the Gulf. It's not that my shrimp-harvesting skills have become outmoded. It's not that there is no longer a demand for the shrimp that I harvest. It's that an oil company has fucked up the environment on which my livelihood depends.

So what am I supposed to do?

That's right, rubato, answer the fucking question. If you can.

What am I supposed to do?

Learn new skills? Great. While my family is running out of food and shelter and clothing, I'll be off spending a couple of years earning my GED. And some more time being taught how to work Word. I'm sure that it will come as great consolation when I get home to my starving family and tell them "I've got no food for you, but I'm on track to get my certificate in a few months!"

The simple truth of the matter is that rubato has not provided any straightforward answer to a straightforward question, because he does not have one. Life's a bitch.

[Andrew D]

Finally, there is rubato's risible blathering about his own description of the people who have committed suicide because their lives were ruined by the Gulf disaster as "useless and cannot learn new skills". He now emphasizes "if" -- as in "if all of those who are useless and cannot learn new skills have killed themselves".

So to whom does the phrase "those who are useless and cannot learn new skills" refer? Does that phrase refer to the people who killed themselves because of the ruination of their livelihoods? Or does it refer to some undefined group of people who may or may not have committed suicide?

Everyone here knows which answer is true. But I leave it up to others: Use your own best judgment, and decide for yourselves.

[oldr_n_wsr]

rubato
After having thought about it, I do think that your equating the tsunami and earthquake to the gulf oil spill is a little like comparing apples to oranges.
The tsunami and earthquake while being different in that they were natural disasters where as the oil spill is manmade, there is another more important difference. That being, the natural disasters occured without warning. One second all was fine, next second all hell broke loose. When hell brakes losse people respond instinctively, helping one another, doing what needs to be done at the moment. The gulf disaster was a slow motion disaster. Fishing ground were still open for the first few days weeks. Then slowly the mess encroached, causing some to lose their livelyhodds in one part where others could still fish in another part. Slow and steady a wide are was engulfed. Gives people time to think, time to ponder, time to go over the edge. As I said, suicide would not be an answer for me but for some, well I never walked in their shoes so I can't answer for them.

[Gob]

The amount donated by the US to the Pakistan floods, (in which 1600+ people died/ 4 million were left homeless) $2 million.

The US has announced a $2bn (£1.3bn) package of military and security aid to Pakistan over five years on the final day of US-Pakistan strategic talks.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton unveiled the deal, which is subject to Congressional approval.

But the Obama administration will make clear it expects Islamabad to do more in the fight against Islamic militants.

The US has given Pakistan more than $1bn of military aid a year since 2005; last fiscal year, it gave nearly $2bn.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11606431

[rubato]

rubato
After having thought about it, I do think that your equating the tsunami and earthquake to the gulf oil spill is a little like comparing apples to oranges. ... "

I did not equate them I compared them and the point of the comparison is that they were unequal in effect. I would think that would be obvious.

sheesh.

yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

Well, well, oils well that ends well...

Oil spill: BP 'did not sacrifice safety to save money'
Fred Bartlit speaking before the National Commission on the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling Fred Bartlit challenged congressional claims during his presentation to the commission

An inquiry ordered by US President Barack Obama into the BP oil spill has given support to many of the company's own findings, challenging claims BP sacrificed safety to save money.

During a presentation to the oil spill commission, the panel's chief investigator said he agreed with 90% of BP's conclusions about the disaster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11714906