A New Voter ID Question

[Gob]

As an example, I didn't purchase property until just 2 years ago,

I thought you were arguing against Meade's points?

[wesw]

anyway....

why should some good fellow, or fellowette, with 200 grand in college debt, and a 300 grand mortgage on a house that is worth 150 now, be more qualified to vote than I?

maybe we should wait until ones mortgage is paid off completely to allow them to vote.

just think sonny, in thirty more years you ll have this baby paid off and (italics) be able to vote.....

[BoSoxGal]

As an example, I didn't purchase property until just 2 years ago,

I thought you were arguing against Meade's points?

you too, wanker! Cunt!

[BoSoxGal]

anyway....

why should some good fellow, or fellowette, with 200 grand in college debt, and a 300 grand mortgage on a house that is worth 150 now, be more qualified to vote than I?

maybe we should wait until ones mortgage is paid off completely to allow them to vote.

just think sonny, in thirty more years you ll have this baby paid off and (italics) be able to vote.....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

You can vote if you live just in a tent under a bridge, so long as you are a citizen.

eta: For that matter, you can vote if you are an ignorant cunt who doesn't know shit about politics or the issues and who loves Donald fucking Trump! This is fucking America!!!!!! All citizens should be able to vote, goddammit!!!!! Felons who have served their time as well!!!!!


This fucking thread is pissing me off!!!!!!!!!!

[Lord Jim]

A whole series of steps have been taken in this country to spoon feed voting to people, yet some don't seem to be satisfied with that; they want to move to intravenous feeding...

The vetting process to determine legal qualification at the time of registration has become a complete joke; voting day registration, early voting, (in some cases as much as more than 30 days before the actual election; I recall an article posted in the other thread where somebody was whining that a state had cut the number early voting days to eight... ) easy access to absentee ballots, (Twenty one states require voters to provide an excuse for voting by absentee ballot. Twenty seven states and the District of Columbia offer no-excuse absentee voting. http://www.longdistancevoter.org/absent ... ME...three states ; Oregon, Colorado and Washington now mail a ballot to every registered voter, inviting fraud on a massive scale)

But none of this apparently is enough... (Some folks are even talking about having voting done on-line...gee, no potential serious problems there... )

Voter ID laws are nothing but a modest corrective to attempt to inject at least some level of integrity into a process that has gone waaay overboard in the opposite direction...

If I could wave a magic wand, I'd conduct voting this way:

I'd have early voting on the Saturday and Sunday prior to election day, period. No more of this voting a month or or more before the actual election; it undermines the democratic process not to have everyone who is voting doing so in a contemporaneous manner with availability to the same information about the candidates and ballot issues. (a lot can happen in the last two months of a campaign; why should people be voting before the campaign unfolds?)

I'd make the actual Tuesday election day a national holiday.

I'd restore the absentee ballot process to what it was intended to be; a resource for those with some legitimate reason not to be able to get to the polls. No more of this "no excuse" absentee ballot nonsense let alone the "send an absentee ballot to every registered voter" insanity....

If with two early weekend days, an election day holiday, and access to an absentee ballot if you have a legitimate need, (and all the public and private organizations available to help you figure out where and how to vote, and to help get you to the polls) you still can't manage to get your lazy, ignorant, apathetic ass to bother to vote, then fuck you, we don't need you participating in the process.

In fact our democracy will be healthier if you don't...

[wesw]

well jim, do you support meade s view? the view that some one like me, who has been a political junky their whole adult life, beginning as a juvenile, should not be able to vote?

my 1975 ford and my 1990 jeep are invaluable to me, but I doubt that I could get more than 2500 bucks for the pair of them. my tools and implements, acquired over many years, would cost more than meade s 15,000 bucks to replace, but I d get nowhere near that if I sold them.

my national geographics and other old books have some value, I could sell them, and my collection of soda pop bottles....

I d have to keep my gun tho, because if I can t meet meade s arbitrary requirement to participate in the govt of the people, it would be my only tool to gain the vote.......

rah, rah, rah
for daddy s jag-u-ar!

[Lord Jim]

well jim, do you support meade s view?

No wes, I do not support a property ownership requirement to vote; if I did I would have said so.

[wesw]

I didn t think that you did. you aren t anti-American.....

[Lord Jim]

BTW, wes, I seriously doubt that Meade really supports a property requirement for voting either...

I think he was just engaging in a little chain yanking, (the satirical intent looks pretty, uh, obvious to me)

By the looks of the responses, he gave the chains of two posters, (you and one other) a really good yank...

[MajGenl.Meade]

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

LJ is so wise! Some of my best friends are yanks and others I'm not so close to are yanked from time to time.



Let me preface this by pointing out that Jefferson, especially in correspondence on the Virginia constitution, upheld white male suffrage - not just for landowners

In most states, property qualifications still limited the vote to white males owning as least a fifty-acre plot of land. This voting limitation upheld Thomas Jefferson's commitment to a rural republicanism that rested on the widespread farm ownership of relatively independent adult males. It was this republican vision that had motivated Jefferson to make the Louisiana Purchase—even though its constitutionality was in question—and to oppose primogeniture. The first promised to open up thousands of acres to farmers, thus assuring the continuation of an agrarian republic, while the latter blocked the creation of landowning dynasties controlled by inheritance to the eldest son.

The right of suffrage is a fundamental Article in Republican Constitutions. The regulation of it is, at the same time, a task of peculiar delicacy. Allow the right [to vote] exclusively to property [owners], and the rights of persons may be oppressed... . Extend it equally to all, and the rights of property [owners] ...may be overruled by a majority without property.... James Madison

Alexander Tytler 1787: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

Alexis de Tocqueville; "The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” - Benjamin Franklin

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

"An economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenue to balance the budget, just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits." - John F. Kennedy

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

[wesw]

yes jim, I suspected that meade was chain yanking. I responded calmly and reasonably, I thought in an effort to flesh out the argument anyway.

bigsky swallowed it hook line and sinker, but I just nibbled about the bait.

meade I skimmed down the quotes until I saw the one from franklin, I knew it would be there. that is what has already happened in my opinion, but they can be exchanged for the next batch of rich folks, legally, if we want it bad enough.

we don t have to chop off heads, this isn t England....

we can have a constitutional convention and change everything legally, if WE want it bad enough.

p.s.- (jim, meade was (italics) only half jesting..., a little tar and feathering was in order )

[wesw]

getting rid of the power of the Clintons and the bushes is the first step in defeating those who have gotten themselves in positions where they can vote themselves rich and control your fortunes as well. IMHO


red white and blue lives matter!!!!!

vote Kasich!

[Big RR]

Jim--you had me tentatively with you until

you still can't manage to get your lazy, ignorant, apathetic ass to bother to vote, then fuck you, we don't need you participating in the process.

In fact our democracy will be healthier if you don't...

I think we philosophically differ here and there is not much we can do to bridge the gap. I think a democracy (or democratic republic or whatever democratic process I can think of) is always better off when more people vote. Anything less is just encouraging a privileged class of voters and underclass of nonvoters, even if people can switch between the classes. I think a democracy et al. should do everything it can to remove artificial barriers to voting; by all means regulate the process sufficiently to protect the integrity of the process, but then do whatever we can to encourage everyone to come out and voter--not just those you agree with, not just those who you see as not being too lazy (by jumping through whatever hoops you decree), but everyone. Democracy et al deserves nothing less IMHO.

And I say that full well knowing that there are people I would vehemently disagree with among those who fit into your lazy/ignorant/apathetic category; but I still say that if we are committed to the democratic process, we have to be committed to getting the voters to speak. And if we don't like what they say, within the bounds of the Constitution, we'll have to learn to live with it.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I still think a 3 year plan to get everyone who wants one a voter ID then after that enforce the rule is the way to go. Have the ID granting people at the polling places so people who are inclined to vote, can get their id for the election that will require it (the fourth year). Along with that get some grass roots efforts with ID people in tow to go around and get those that were too inconvenienced to not vote in those 3 elections and give them voter id's.
It's not a question of there is no fraud or there is fraud. It's making sure there will be little to no fraud. Give the system integrity so there is no question about fraud.

oldr_n_wsr a land owner who is mortgage free, although I only have 1/2 acre

[BoSoxGal]

Oh goodie for you, Meade! You got my goat! You must be so proud of yourself!

It was a serious thread asking a serious question, and I asked you first IF you were serious before giving you what was, in my opinion, the appropriate response to such an anti-American assertion. You lied and fooled me - but only because, IMHO, you've been posting some really fucked up conservative opinions in recent months and so it wasn't entirely beyond the pale to believe you'd really evolved to such a position.

You know what they say . . . fool me once, shame on you. Now, I'll never trust or respect anything you post again, so there is no point bothering with reading your posts at all.

Congrats! Hope you enjoyed the laugh!


Wanker cunt.








Seriously, how is using foul language a more unpardonable sin than fucking with someone who is trying to engage in a serious discussion about a core issue bearing on human dignity??? The values some folks express and abide by in this place are really, really fucked up.

[MajGenl.Meade]

IMHO, you've been posting some really . . . conservative opinions in recent months

It's odd - lately I've been accused of posting liberal ones and going democrat....

I was just kiddin'

$20,000.00 is preferable. And perhaps a spelling test and a general knowledge quiz.

I dunno, bsg. Isn't it enough to clearly say "I was just kiddin'" and then put a smiley face laughing?

Then I make it more absurd by just increasing the amount (pretending your complaint was that 15K was not enough) and then adding spelling and general knowledge... this is another JOKE, given my (and your) contempt for ignorance

Isn't it clear enough, for goodness' sake? You class all that as "lying"?

What a shame you did not want to engage the question of the franchise and the concerns of the Founding Fathers, who nevertheless left it up to the states to decide who could and who could not vote. That was rather the serious allusion in my post and has a direct relationship to matters of "rights" and voter ID.

As to bad language, I regret any retreat to obscenity. It is the proud banner of incivility. I much prefer repartee - wit over shit any time. My posts are always worth reading. They may have not have any real value though. S'true.

[BoSoxGal]

Yeah, whatever you posted I didn't read it - you're on ignore. Forever. One less audience member for your show, one less trusting fool for you to fuck with. Sorry! (Not!)

[TPFKA@W]

Uh oh Meade, now you've done it-done went and made Ms. Smartypants look silly. The punishment is severe-she will no longer grant you an audience. Have you a crying towel?

[rubato]

"... Oregon, Colorado and Washington now mail a ballot to every registered voter, inviting fraud on a massive scale)

Imaginary secret voter fraud, but MASSIVE! MASSIVE!

Voter ID laws are nothing but a modest corrective to attempt to inject at least some level of integrity into a process that has gone waaay overboard in the opposite direction...

Voter ID laws are a way of helping the rich and powerful against the poor and weak. And using an imaginary secret problem as the excuse.

If I could wave a magic wand, I'd conduct voting this way:

If you ever get a magic wand, ask for a brain.


yrs,
rubato

[BoSoxGal]

@w, you're on my ignore list too and I don't read any posts of yours that are in any way responsive to mine; I know they'll only be mean and cuntish and I don't want to go that road with you anymore.

Just thought I'd do you the courtesy of letting you know that, because your mean & cuntish posts directed at me aren't achieving the desired goal of hurting my feelings, you might want to save your time and stop proving to others here what a vile bitch you can be when somebody puts your panties in a twist.