It's a bitch getting old...

[wesw]

yeah, it s a fine line raythom

that s the second thing today that I ve agreed with you about.

[RayThom]

It's not only annoying but it's starting to ruin my record as a seasoned contrarian who doesn't know shit from Shinola. Stop the insanity and leave me alone.

Go agree with some of the others who have a lot more to say about almost everything.

[BoSoxGal]

[No Greater Fool]

What she said. Probably would be funnier if it weren't so true.

[TPFKA@W]

I have watched closely as people age and it is very ugly. I believe we were never intended, biologically at least, to go much beyond age 40. To survive beyond that comes with quite a price. The grace in it is that when death beacons at us to follow, it is by then a welcome happening. Well for everyone but Jim who will doubtless kick and claw and bite when the time comes.

[Guinevere]

I have watched closely as people age and it is very ugly. I believe we were never intended, biologically at least, to go much beyond age 40. To survive beyond that comes with quite a price. The grace in it is that when death beacons at us to follow, it is by then a welcome happening. Well for everyone but Jim who will doubtless kick and claw and bite when the time comes.

You certainly have more experience than anyone here in watching this process, and in more detail. I think we all agree that it can be incredibly painful and ugly and awful. I'm sure we don't even know how awful it can be, and I totally defer to your expertise and experiences.

But not much beyond 40? Sorry, there are plenty of things I do better now, in my 40s, than I did at 20 and 30 (at least I think so). Yes, sometimes it hurts a little more, or I'm a more tired, but I would not give up all that I've learned and experienced and the wisdom it has imparted, to be 19 again. Ok, maybe for a weekend , but not forever.

And I can also say, watching my Mom fight and fight and fight for life the last two years, when she very well may have slipped away, gives me a new appreciation for the fight. It's more than just Jim who will kick and claw and bite, and I'm OK with that, too. I'm selfishly glad Mom is still here, and more importantly, so is she.

ETA: she made it clear during the fight that *she* didn't want to give up, fwiw. Frankly, I didn't think she had it in her, it was amazing.

[TPFKA@W]

I have watched closely as people age and it is very ugly. I believe we were never intended, biologically at least, to go much beyond age 40. To survive beyond that comes with quite a price. The grace in it is that when death beacons at us to follow, it is by then a welcome happening. Well for everyone but Jim who will doubtless kick and claw and bite when the time comes.

You certainly have more experience than anyone here in watching this process, and in more detail. I think we all agree that it can be incredibly painful and ugly and awful. I'm sure we don't even know how awful it can be, and I totally defer to your expertise and experiences.

But not much beyond 40? Sorry, there are plenty of things I do better now, in my 40s, than I did at 20 and 30 (at least I think so). Yes, sometimes it hurts a little more, or I'm a more tired, but I would not give up all that I've learned and experienced and the wisdom it has imparted, to be 19 again. Ok, maybe for a weekend , but not forever.

And I can also say, watching my Mom fight and fight and fight for life the last two years, when she very well may have slipped away, gives me a new appreciation for the fight. It's more than just Jim who will kick and claw and bite, and I'm OK with that, too. I'm selfishly glad Mom is still here, and more importantly, so is she.

Wisdom is a nice benefit of aging, if you actually become wise. I don't want to type out a great deal of blabbity blah but yes, I do feel life after 40 is sub-optimal for most people. I am now 56 and I really see the decline in my physical performance. I used to be the girl they went and got when they needed the lid off something or needed a strong hand to lift someone. Now I am the old granny coaching the younger girls in "how to". My skin is thinning and getting a crepe-y look to it particularly on my arms. My hair has been a golden blonde for many years and now it is really turning gray. Someone said to me that I was getting blonder. Har. No, that is silver not platinum you are seeing my dear but thanks anyway. Everything hurts, like all over. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. I also have osteoarthritis. I take care of people in their late 80's and their pain is awful to see. I think how bad I ache some days at 56 and wonder just how awful it might be if I live to 86. It is truly a daunting thought. My husband has had a couple of outbreaks of shingles. His knees are giving him hell. He is 6 years my senior and has declined visibly in the last decade.

We do a number on ourselves trying to keep going. My dear friend from highschool, Beth, passed away in September. She had fought cancer so hard for so long. Breast cancer, because she had "the gene". When diagnosed she was declared to be stage zero so they did not remove both her breasts. Ultimately she did lose both breasts, her ovaries and uterus, took countless rounds of chemo and radiation. She moved back to Indiana this summer and finally went on hospice, but not before her over zealous oncologist burned a hole through her with radiation. During a visit with her the hospice nurse changed her dressing on her chest and I could see her rib bones sticking out. Her pain and her anxiety...well there really aren't words for it.

Mileage varies. Pick your parents carefully because genetics plays a huge role in how well you will age. Keep active. Keep your weight under control, being overweight is a huge enemy. Smoke if you enjoy the thought of being tethered to O2. A few people, determined to set a bad example, dodge that bullet, again, it is in the genes and smoking is playing Russian roulette.

When death comes for you remember that he can be your best friend.

OOPS too much blabbity blah, sorry.

[BoSoxGal]

I'm scared by the condition of my body at only 45, although admittedly some of it is due to failure to keep myself fit and slender in the years I focused too much on taking care of other people. With my MS diagnosis I'm working hard on clean eating, losing weight and managing stress - the number one issue being getting good, sound sleep every night.

But I have to say, unless they find some way to reverse the inevitable effects of aging on the human body, I can't see wanting to live much longer than late 70s/early 80s. Even if a person could have a vital body and little pain at that age, I'm not sure I want to hang around much longer anyway - it's a lot of pain observing what humans are capable of in their worst moments, and there is far too much of that on offer.

[Big RR]

My mother in law in 84 and in relatively good shape; she has aches and pains, but not bad ones (and she is (and always has been) quite the baby about pain so we'd know if it was bad, no real health problems--blood pressure and blood work fine, can eat what she wants, etc. She's not what I'd call happy, then she never has been as long as I have known her (and through her whole life according to her sisters), but she's not sad either. She moves a little more slowly, sleeps a bit more during the day, but pretty much she's the same as she always was, for better or worse, and she may well continue that way for another 10 or more years--who knows?

My father, on the other hand, got sick in his mid-and became progressively worse. He spent the last 6+ years of his life in and out of hospitals, rehab, and then home for a short time followed by the cycle again. He was ready to let go, but his body was not, and despite all the problems it held on.

But IMHO death is part of the cycle of life, and while you can choose to rage or go gently into that good night, it comes for us all, like it or not. I have to agree with BSG, even if I was in pretty good shape, I don't think I'd like to live past 90 or 100.

[Joe Guy]

One day at a time. It does no good to compare yourself to your younger self or worry about how you will be in years to come.

You can concentrate on the positive things in your life, take care of yourself and help others feel better about themselves or you can be miserable and remind everyone that they are getting old and ugly, weak, diseased, mentally deteriorating and will die some day.

It's your choice.

[wesw]

[wesw]

maybe you d better start at the beginning...

[Big RR]

or worry about how you will be in years to come.

That's where I disagree; just as you should plan for what happens to your assets when you die, you should also provide for your wishes to be carried out if you get to a point where you can no longer consent/direct to withhold any course of treatment. Putting together a medical proxy and advance directive is important as is setting up a durable power of attorney. I agree we should not worry, but we should approach it knowingly and plan accordingly.

[TPFKA@W]

My mother in law in 84 and in relatively good shape; she has aches and pains, but not bad ones (and she is (and always has been) quite the baby about pain so we'd know if it was bad,

It truly upsets and irks me when people are judgmental about other people's pain. You have absolutely no knowledge of anyone's experience with pain but your own. Until you crawl into your MIL's skin you have no idea what she feels and and have no right to judge her as a "baby". I am convinced that no 2 people experience pain the same way. Pain is personal, don't judge please.

[Big RR]

Well it's more my opinion of her, than a judgment of what she experiences. However, she has never, to my knowledge, tolerated pain--even a minor injury (like a scratch most people would just put a bandaid on) will send her into a litany of complaints designed to make everyone feel bad and wait on her, which is her SOP to control all around her. I have no doubt if she had any remarkable pain, no one would hear the end of it as she would try to use it to manipulate and control those around her.

So yes, I can understand why you would say what you did, and while I regret the use of the term "baby", I also maintain you don't know her and her ways (which have driven many away from ever having anything to do with her). Even if the pain were like the fires of hell, that is no excuse for her to do what she does, and that she doesn't do it often makes me think she isn't experiencing much pain right now.

I am usually very sympathetic to people's pain, but IMHO I know her too well to be suckered.

[TPFKA@W]

Well it's more my opinion of her, than a judgment of what she experiences. However, she has never, to my knowledge, tolerated pain--even a minor injury (like a scratch most people would just put a bandaid on) will send her into a litany of complaints designed to make everyone feel bad and wait on her, which is her SOP to control all around her. I have no doubt if she had any remarkable pain, no one would hear the end of it as she would try to use it to manipulate and control those around her.

So yes, I can understand why you would say what you did, and while I regret the use of the term "baby", I also maintain you don't know her and her ways (which have driven many away from ever having anything to do with her). Even if the pain were like the fires of hell, that is no excuse for her to do what she does, and that she doesn't do it often makes me think she isn't experiencing much pain right now.

I am usually very sympathetic to people's pain, but IMHO I know her too well to be suckered.

[Econoline]

Old age is the most unexpected of all the things that can happen to a man.
--Leon Trotsky

(Well, of course, it turns out that an ice axe in the head at the age of 60 is even MORE unexpected...)

[MajGenl.Meade]

A good joke, Econo. But don't forget that just three months before that, Trotsky and his wife were fortunate to escape a hail of machine gun fire from a group who burst into their house. Trotsky was more than well aware that Stalin was trying to have him killed. So perhaps old age would indeed have been most unexpected!

[Joe Guy]

or worry about how you will be in years to come.

That's where I disagree; just as you should plan for what happens to your assets when you die, you should also provide for your wishes to be carried out if you get to a point where you can no longer consent/direct to withhold any course of treatment. Putting together a medical proxy and advance directive is important as is setting up a durable power of attorney. I agree we should not worry, but we should approach it knowingly and plan accordingly.

We don't disagree, Big RR. I was talking about not worrying all of the time about how you might be some day. Just about everyone should have some kind of a will or trust or both. If you take care of that, it's another thing that you don't have to worry about.

[BoSoxGal]

What I told my estate planning clients was that having those documents in place would reduce their own worry, and eliminate it entirely for their children - in most cases, anyway.