Tell It Like It Is

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Should the U.S. Admit Syrian Refugees and/or Refugees Who Are Muslim?

Yes
8
57%
No
2
14%
Maybe (Under what conditions)
3
21%
No Way, and Expel Those Who are already Here!
1
7%
I don't vote in Polls
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 14

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Lord Jim
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by Lord Jim »

As I said, I think this provision of the bill goes too far:
The bill would require the head of the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Director of National Intelligence to sign off on each refugee as being "not a threat to the security of the United States,"
Requiring these people to personally review each and every case file is completely unrealistic...

However, that having been said Obama really has no one but himself to blame for seeing this kind of legislation passing with not only GOP support but also the votes of 47 Democrats:
Calling the Paris attacks "a game changer", Rep Brad Ashford, a Democrat from Nebraska, said: "I cannot sit back and ignore the concerns of my constituents and the American public."
The reason this kind of public pressure exists is because the public has lost all confidence in this President's grasp of reality related to the terrorist threat. Paris may have been a "game changer" for Congressmen like Ashford, but Obama demonstrated quite conclusively in his pitiful performance in Turkey on Monday that it was no "game changer" for him.

No, it was an opportunity for him to cluelessly assert one more time that his approach to dealing with ISIS is working splendidly, and to attack his critics with his false choice BS yet again...
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dales
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by dales »

No, it was an opportunity for him to cluelessly assert one more time that his approach to dealing with ISIS is working splendidly, and to attack his critics with his false choice BS yet again...
Looks like our community organizer from Chicago is out of his league.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
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wesw
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by wesw »

oh, I thought the "no shit, sherlocks" was for me, and that the info had been posted already.

the use of the plural didn t make sense, but I figured It was just an addition to the long list of things I don t understand.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

No worries - the plural referred to the two guys quoted in the bit
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by TPFKA@W »

Here is a long read one of my friends posted on Facebook. No doubt the ones who should read it lack the attention span to do so.

Scott Hicks
Yesterday at 9:54am · Edited ·

Most of my friends know I practice Immigration law. As such, I have worked with the refugee community for over two decades. This post is long, but if you want actual information about the process, keep reading.

I can not tell you how frustrating it is to see the misinformation and outright lies that are being perpetuated about the refugee process and the Syrian refugees. So, here is a bit of information from the real world of someone who actually works and deals with this issue.

The refugee screening process is multi-layered and is very difficult to get through. Most people languish in temporary camps for months to years while their story is evaluated and checked.

First, you do not get to choose what country you might be resettled into. If you already have family (legal) in a country, that makes it more likely that you will go there to be with family, but other than that it is random. So, you can not simply walk into a refugee camp, show a document, and say, I want to go to America. Instead, the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees) works with the local authorities to try to take care of basic needs. Once the person/family is registered to receive basic necessities, they can be processed for resettlement. Many people are not interested in resettlement as they hope to return to their country and are hoping that the turmoil they fled will be resolved soon. In fact, most refugees in refugee events never resettle to a third country. Those that do want to resettle have to go through an extensive process.

Resettlement in the U.S. is a long process and takes many steps. The Refugee Admissions Program is jointly administered by the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration (PRM) in the Department of State, the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) in the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), and offices within the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) within DHS conducts refugee interviews and determines individual eligibility for refugee status in the United States.

We evaluate refugees on a tiered system with three levels of priority.

First Priority are people who have suffered compelling persecution or for whom no other durable solution exists. These individuals are referred to the United States by UNHCR, or they are identified by the U.S. embassy or a non-governmental organization (NGO).

Second priority are groups of “special concern” to the United States. The Department of State determines these groups, with input from USCIS, UNHCR, and designated NGOs. At present, we prioritize certain persons from the former Soviet Union, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Iran, Burma, and Bhutan.

Third priority are relatives of refugees (parents, spouses, and unmarried children under 21) who are already settled in the United States may be admitted as refugees. The U.S.-based relative must file an Affidavit of Relationship (AOR) and must be processed by DHS.

Before being allowed to come to the United States, each refugee must undergo an extensive interviewing, screening, and security clearance process conducted by Regional Refugee Coordinators and overseas Resettlement Support Centers (RSCs). Individuals generally must not already be firmly resettled (a legal term of art that would be a separate article). Just because one falls into the three priorities above does not guarantee admission to the United States.

The Immigration laws require that the individuals prove that they have a “well-founded fear,” (another legal term which would be a book.) This fear must be proved regardless of the person’s country, circumstance, or classification in a priority category. There are multiple interviews and people are challenged on discrepancies. I had a client who was not telling the truth on her age and the agency challenged her on it. Refugees are not simply admitted because they have a well founded fear. They still must show that they are not subject to exclusion under Section 212(a) of the INA. These grounds include serious health matters, moral or criminal matters, as well as security issues. In addition, they can be excluded for such things as polygamy, misrepresentation of facts on visa applications, smuggling, or previous deportations. Under some circumstances, the person may be eligible to have the ground waived.

At this point, a refugee can be conditionally accepted for resettlement. Then, the RSC sends a request for assurance of placement to the United States, and the Refugee Processing Center (RPC) works with private voluntary agencies (VOLAG) to determine where the refugee will live. If the refugee does have family in the U.S., efforts will be made to resettle close to that family.

Every person accepted as a refugee for planned admission to the United States is conditional upon passing a medical examination and passing all security checks. Frankly, there is more screening of refugees than ever happens to get on an airplane. Of course, yes, no system can be 100% foolproof. But if that is your standard, then you better shut down the entire airline industry, close the borders, and stop all international commerce and shipping. Every one of those has been the source of entry of people and are much easier ways to gain access to the U.S. Only upon passing all of these checks (which involve basically every agency of the government involved in terrorist identification) can the person actually be approved to travel.

Before departing, refugees sign a promissory note to repay the United States for their travel costs. This travel loan is an interest-free loan that refugees begin to pay back six months after arriving in the country.

Once the VOLAG is notified of the travel plans, it must arrange for the reception of refugees at the airport and transportation to their housing at their final destination.
This process from start to finish averages 18 to 24 months, but I have seen it take years.

The reality is that about half of the refugees are children, another quarter are elderly. Almost all of the adults are either moms or couples coming with children. Each year the President, in consultation with Congress, determines the numerical ceiling for refugee admissions. For Fiscal Year (FY) 2016, the proposed ceiling is 85,000. We have been averaging about 70,000 a year for the last number of years. (Source: Refugee Processing Center)

Over one-third of all refugee arrivals (35.1 percent, or 24,579) in FY 2015 came from the Near East/South Asia—a region that includes Iraq, Iran, Bhutan, and Afghanistan.
Another third of all refugee arrivals (32.1 percent, or 22,472) in FY 2015 came from Africa.
Over a quarter of all refugee arrivals (26.4 percent, or 18,469) in FY 2015 came from East Asia — a region that includes China, Vietnam, and Indonesia. (Source: Refugee Processing Center)

Finally, the process in Europe is different. I would be much more concerned that terrorists are infiltrating the European system because they are not nearly so extensive and thorough in their process.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by BoSoxGal »

:ok
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Joe Guy
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by Joe Guy »

If you haven't seen it yet, check out The Good Lie. It's a very good movie about some refugees coming to America.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by BoSoxGal »

I agree, it's a great film! :ok
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Image
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Guinevere
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by Guinevere »

Who else is willing to reveal their vote? I'm a yes, along with BigRR and BSG and maybe CP. We know LJ and Meade are two of the maybes. Who is the other maybe? Joe? Who are the no votes (I'm guessing Dales and wes)?
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

rubato
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by rubato »

Yes, as well.

Failing to fulfill our moral obligation just because there is a very small risk attached is cowardly and disgraces the sacrifices of our ancestors.


We disgraced ourselves when we locked up Japanese ctizens because we were afraid and we disgraced ourselves by turning away a boatload of Jewish refugees (most of whom died as a result) because we were selfish and anti-semitic. We don't have to keep making the same mistakes.


yrs,
rubato

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Econoline
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by Econoline »

No one will be surprised to find out that I also voted "Yes".
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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Lord Jim
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by Lord Jim »

rube, that post of yours is riddled with historical inaccuracies on a level with your assertion that "The British have had 4th rate navy since the American Revolution"...
because we were selfish and anti-semitic.
I'm sorry rube...

Did I hear you say "anti-semitic"?
The racism towards blacks is contiguous with their racism towards Palestinians (both Christian and Muslim). And it is tied to their religion.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8956&p=113300&hili ... ns#p113300

You made a complete pig's breakfast of it the last time you tried to weasel out of this...

Would you care to make a more honest attempt this time, or better yet, just flat out apologize?
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

rube - a little history about the St Louis, which presumably is the vessel to which you refer. Roosevelt was a Democrat, neh? Not that Republicans were any different. It's a little bit more than anti-Semitism. Oh... wait... it's a LOT more than anti-Semitism. Of course, I might be quoting from some biased, non-objective and non-independent source - let's allow Big RR the opportunity to tell me so. :lol:
Quotas established in the US Immigration and Nationality Act of 1924 strictly limited the number of immigrants who could be admitted to the United States each year. In 1939, the annual combined German-Austrian immigration quota was 27,370 and was quickly filled. In fact, there was a waiting list of at least several years. US officials could only have granted visas to the St. Louis passengers by denying them to the thousands of German Jews placed further up on the waiting list.

Public opinion in the United States, although ostensibly sympathetic to the plight of refugees and critical of Hitler's policies, continued to favor immigration restrictions. The Great Depression had left millions of people in the United States unemployed and fearful of competition for the scarce few jobs available. It also fueled antisemitism, xenophobia, nativism, and isolationism. A Fortune Magazine poll at the time indicated that 83 percent of Americans opposed relaxing restrictions on immigration. President Roosevelt could have issued an executive order to admit the St. Louis refugees, but this general hostility to immigrants, the gains of isolationist Republicans in the Congressional elections of 1938, and Roosevelt's consideration of running for an unprecedented third term as president were among the political considerations that militated against taking this extraordinary step in an unpopular cause.

Roosevelt was not alone in his reluctance to challenge the mood of the nation on the immigration issue. Three months before the St. Louis sailed, Congressional leaders in both US houses allowed to die in committee a bill sponsored by Senator Robert Wagner (D-N.Y.) and Representative Edith Rogers (R-Mass.). This bill would have admitted 20,000 Jewish children from Germany above the existing quota.

Two smaller ships carrying Jewish refugees sailed to Cuba in May 1939. The French ship, the Flandre, carried 104 passengers; the Orduña, a British vessel, held 72 passengers. Like the St. Louis, these ships were not permitted to dock in Cuba. The Flandre turned back to its point of departure in France, while the Orduña proceeded to a series of Latin American ports. Its passengers finally disembarked in the US-controlled Canal Zone in Panama. The United States eventually admitted most of them.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10005267

History - so much more than unsound bites
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

rubato
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by rubato »

This is the context. Referred to before:

Re: Black Miss Israel

Postby rubato » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:17 am
Israel's treatment of the Falashas is an ugly little racist history. First, they denied them the right of return given to all white Jews who merely show up and say "I'm Jewish" no matter the degree of religiousity or which sect they are from. Finally they tried to make up for it by evacuating the Falashas who remained alive.

The racism towards blacks is contiguous with their racism towards Palestinians (both Christian and Muslim). And it is tied to their religion.

But perhaps they will atone and repair their social attitudes more quickly than we have?

yrs,
rubato

The context is plain for all. You can stop lying now.



yrs,
rubato

rubato
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by rubato »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:rube - a little history about the St Louis, which presumably is the vessel to which you refer. Roosevelt was a Democrat, neh? Not that Republicans were any different. It's a little bit more than anti-Semitism. Oh... wait... it's a LOT more than anti-Semitism. Of course, I might be quoting from some biased, non-objective and non-independent source - let's allow Big RR the opportunity to tell me so. :lol:
Quotas established in the US Immigration and Nationality Act of 1924 strictly limited the number of immigrants who could be admitted to the United States each year. In 1939, the annual combined German-Austrian immigration quota was 27,370 and was quickly filled. In fact, there was a waiting list of at least several years. US officials could only have granted visas to the St. Louis passengers by denying them to the thousands of German Jews placed further up on the waiting list.

Public opinion in the United States, although ostensibly sympathetic to the plight of refugees and critical of Hitler's policies, continued to favor immigration restrictions. The Great Depression had left millions of people in the United States unemployed and fearful of competition for the scarce few jobs available. It also fueled antisemitism, xenophobia, nativism, and isolationism. A Fortune Magazine poll at the time indicated that 83 percent of Americans opposed relaxing restrictions on immigration. President Roosevelt could have issued an executive order to admit the St. Louis refugees, but this general hostility to immigrants, the gains of isolationist Republicans in the Congressional elections of 1938, and Roosevelt's consideration of running for an unprecedented third term as president were among the political considerations that militated against taking this extraordinary step in an unpopular cause.

Roosevelt was not alone in his reluctance to challenge the mood of the nation on the immigration issue. Three months before the St. Louis sailed, Congressional leaders in both US houses allowed to die in committee a bill sponsored by Senator Robert Wagner (D-N.Y.) and Representative Edith Rogers (R-Mass.). This bill would have admitted 20,000 Jewish children from Germany above the existing quota.

Two smaller ships carrying Jewish refugees sailed to Cuba in May 1939. The French ship, the Flandre, carried 104 passengers; the Orduña, a British vessel, held 72 passengers. Like the St. Louis, these ships were not permitted to dock in Cuba. The Flandre turned back to its point of departure in France, while the Orduña proceeded to a series of Latin American ports. Its passengers finally disembarked in the US-controlled Canal Zone in Panama. The United States eventually admitted most of them.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10005267

History - so much more than unsound bites

The president could have used an executive order and admitted them or the legislature could have passed a bill to admit them. They did not do so because, as I said, the public were anti-semitic and selfish which is proven in the highlighted section above.

And all this does is show that we should not make the same mistake again. Your passage only proves that all my statements were correct.


yrs,
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dales
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by dales »

Guinevere wrote:Who else is willing to reveal their vote? I'm a yes, along with BigRR and BSG and maybe CP. We know LJ and Meade are two of the maybes. Who is the other maybe? Joe? Who are the no votes (I'm guessing Dales and wes)?

Sorry, you guessed wrong.

I didn't vote and don't intend to vote in the poll.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
rubato

rubato
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by rubato »

So you are a null.



yrs,
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Big RR
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by Big RR »

Of course, I might be quoting from some biased, non-objective and non-independent source - let's allow Big RR the opportunity to tell me so. :lol:
Normally, I might well tell you; but when a post begins like this, I just don't bother to read any further.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Tell It Like It Is

Post by TPFKA@W »

I voted no because everyone had voted yes up to that point and what fun is that?

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