turkey shoot

[wesw]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... X5oKGsP7mA

Turkey 'shoots down Russian warplane on Syria border'
BBC

[dgs49]

Some reports credit the kill to a couple of F-16's, some to ground-based anti-aircraft fire. I vote for the F-16's.

Surely, Putin didn't think he could do what he is doing in that neighborhood without risk of losses.

[rubato]

Maybe the Russian pilots will respond after 1 warning next time?


Turkey has been complaining that the Russians are violating their airspace for weeks now. I would guess that it was a deliberate policy of the Russians to do so as an act of ego/aggression and as a strategic advantage later on. If they get the Turks used to the violation then in a real attack they will respond more slowly.


yrs,
rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

The surviving pilot of a Russian plane shot down by Turkey on the Syrian border has said no warning was given.

Capt Konstantin Murakhtin told Russian television there was "no way" the jet could have violated Turkish airspace.

Russia said Capt Murakhtin was rescued in a 12-hour operation involving special forces.

It is not clear what happened to the body of his co-pilot, who was killed by gunfire as he parachuted from the burning plane.

Capt Murakhtin was speaking from the Hmeymim airbase, where Russia's aircraft have been based in its Syrian campaign, and where he was taken after being rescued

[Lord Jim]

It goes without saying of course, that if Putin had been using his air force to strike ISIS targets like he has been claiming, his planes would have been nowhere near where this one was shot down...

[Scooter]

You know that Putin is lying when you see his lips moving, but even if an incursion did occur, and even if the plane was hit in Turkish airspace, Turkey's version of the flight path would have had the planes travelling towards the border and crossing into Syria in a matter of seconds. I get the need to demonstrate absolute commitment to defending its airspace, but if the incursions are going to be the problem Turkey has claimed, surely a less ambiguous case will present itself, without the need for everyone to take out their protractors to evaluate whose claimed flight path is more likely.

[rubato]

I'll wait for the data.


The Russian propaganda sites are all claiming that the plane would have to be flying at stall speed but fail to mention that assumes a straight flight path.


http://sputniknews.com/military/2015112 ... story.html


They use that same joke, btw:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-downed ... hs/5491492

The Downed Russian SU-24. Turkey Is Lying: “NATO Governments Lie Every Time They Open Their Mouths”

yrs,
rubato

[liberty]

If there was an E-3A on station at the time the event would be recorded on tape, if they still use tape. I am sure it would be recorded on something.

[Lord Jim]

You know that Putin is lying when you see his lips moving

Yeah, veracity ain't exactly the Vladster's strong suit...

This is the guy who swore with a straight face that there were no Russian troops in the Crimea while Western news organizations were filming Russian tank columns rolling through the streets of Simferopol...

Nobody does dead-pan comedy like Vlad...

When it was initially reported that the plane might have been shot down by anti-aircraft fire I was delighted...

It would be great if the non-ISIS rebels fighting in Syria had that sort of capability; they could take out Assad's air force...(they certainly wouldn't have gotten it from us)

That having been said the one really ugly part of this, even from the ostensible "good guys" was the machine gunning of the pilot who ejected from the plane...

It doesn't matter if the guys who did that acted out of rage because they had just lost friends due to the bombing from the plane. That may make it understandable, but it doesn't make it acceptable. That was a clear-cut violation of the rules of warfare...

[liberty]

You all had better watch out how you talk about Russia and Putin. When this country eventually goes to hell and our children need a master and protector Putin or his successor will be the best we can do. Hell, it might happen during our lifetime.

In Russia now, a citizen can own a gun for self protection. I can see Russia becoming a freer country than this one.

[rubato]

"... I can see Russia becoming a freer country than this one.

In which century?


yrs,
rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

The one before last....

[Lord Jim]

Russia was a much freer country just 20 years ago...

For nearly a decade after Mr. Reagan defeated the Soviet Union, genuine democracy blossomed in Russia. It was raucous and a bit chaotic, but promising...

Freedom of speech and the press flourished, an independent court system was established, and genuinely free elections were regularly held...

Then came Putin, to put his boot back on the throat of the Russian people....

When I see his high popularity in polls that are taken I find it very depressing...apparently there are a lot of Russians who just prefer a Strong Man, no matter how many people he has murdered...

(Though of course polls taken in authoritarian societies have to be viewed with skepticism, since those being polled can't be sure that the "pollster" isn't actually with the secret police, and may answer accordingly...)

[liberty]

"... I can see Russia becoming a freer country than this one.

In which century?


yrs,
rubato

This country is headed for serious trouble. Why do you think that so many people are willing to forgive Trump so much? It is because this country is headed for the cliff. In what area is this country in good shape, the debt, jobs leaving the country, cheap labor coming in to compete with citizens, money leaving the country or patriotism, I don’t think so. Would you fight for the country; no, only stupid Southerner and Hispanics do. And if HRC is elected it will be another nail in the coffin. God, I pray the socialist Sanders is elected and his eyes are opened at least he truly seems to care about the country.

In the end Putin may be the best we can do.

[rubato]

The one before last....

Under the Tsars? When the serfs were effectively slaves with no right to leave the service of their masters?


yrs,
rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

It was a.. I say.. it was a joke, son.

Lib says he can see Russia becoming more free

You ask in which century?

And because I think Lib is so barse-ackwards, I suggest his idea of freedom is akin to the 19th century

<sigh>

They ain'ts no goods if youse hasto explains thems

[Lord Jim]

You'd think that a guy with such a natural gift for unintentional comedy would at least have a minimal sense of humor...

[rubato]

It was a.. I say.. it was a joke, son.

Lib says he can see Russia becoming more free

You ask in which century?

And because I think Lib is so barse-ackwards, I suggest his idea of freedom is akin to the 19th century

<sigh>

They ain'ts no goods if youse hasto explains thems

Your typical disconnection from reality makes correct interpretation of sarcasm difficult. Speak plainly, if you can.

yrs,
rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

Ok. You're an idiot

[dales]

[rubato] I know you are, but what am I?[/rubato]