Surprise of the Year

[MajGenl.Meade]

WASHINGTON, Dec 9 (Reuters) - The couple who killed 14 people in San Bernardino last week were radicalized before they met online and spoke of jihad and martyrdom to each other as early as late 2013, FBI director James Comey said on Wednesday.

"They were actually radicalized before they started ... dating each other online, and as early as the end of 2013 they were talking to each other about jihad and martyrdom before they became engaged," Comey said at a hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

The FBI believes the couple were inspired by foreign terrorist organizations, and is working to understand the nature of their association and the source of their inspiration, he added

[Lord Jim]

I see no evidence that there was any Islamist motivation here whatsoever. Just a guy who had an abusive father who was pissed off at his co-workers, being helped by his domestic worker wife....

yrs,

rubewrongo

[oldr_n_wsr]

Well I'll sleep better tonight knowing that.

[wesw]

there is a lot more , and newer info than what meade posted as well.

there is evidence that the lass may be part of a wider conspiracy and not just inspired and that the lad may have planned a previous attack as well

I wonder if Obama was protecting us from the truth in his oval office address?

[Big RR]

Jim--from the reports, I think it is clear that we know these people were exposed to (and presumably expressed) radical Islamic sentiments, and that they either stockpiled (or were holding for someone else), weapons and bombs.

As for the actual motivation behind the attacks, it may well have been to strike a blow in the name of radical islam, or it may be that the guy was pissed off at his coworkers for some reason and decided to use some of the weapons to exact revenge. If there is more that links the attack to making some sort of a statement in the name of radical islam, I have not yet heard it.

[wesw]

well, they had been going to firing ranges and had done a dry fire run in a private yard.

the girl has been linked to a radical mosque in Pakistan and a radical school in Saudi

the lad had had contacts with al shabab and nusra front

Pakistan has taken some of her family members into custody and the guys dad said that the boy had all sorts of radical ideas which made the dad s radical ideas pale in comparison

now the dad claims he was on meds and has no recollection of giving the interview to "some obscure Italian newspaper" as the family s lovely lawyer put it.

that s all I can remember off the top of my head

[Big RR]

wes--again, I do think a lot of information dealing with their radicalization has been presented; likewise we do know they had a significant cache of weapons and bombs, etc. in their house. I had not heard of a "dry fire run" nor do I know what it was a run of, but I somehow doubt that all this firepower was amassed to allow them to attack his workplace, nor do I think the attack is of the type which radical cells would ordinarily pursue. Personally, I think he got pissed off at a few people at work and decided to take some of the weapons and attack them.

Not that the motivation matters IMHO; the people are idea whether he was carrying out a radical islam inspired attack or was just a run of the mill pissed off worker going postal who involved his wife; the victims are just as dead or injured and, regardless of why they attacked them, they should be subjected to the same punishment. But since some people insist on characterizing this as a radial islam inspired attack, I just wanted to point out the facts as I understood them.

[wesw]

I think that it is entirely possible that the guy said....

"baby, there is this fucking jewboy that said islam is not peaceful, can we please go blow his ass away on the way to our other attack?", or something similar.

I also understand that the reports of an argument at the gathering itself have been shown to be totally false, tho he previously had had problems with one of his co workers, who was not a nice guy himself, from what I understand.

[Lord Jim]

If there is more that links the attack to making some sort of a statement in the name of radical islam, I have not yet heard it.

Well, there's the pledging allegiance to al-Bigdaddy thing:

Officials: San Bernardino shooters pledged allegiance to the Islamic State

Federal authorities believe that the Facebook posting from one of the attackers who killed 14 people here last week was made on behalf of both shooters, according to several senior U.S. law enforcement officials.

"We pledge allegiance" was the message Tashfeen Malik posted on Facebook just before she and her husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, launched the extensively planned Dec. 2 attack, several senior U.S. law enforcement officials said.

The Pakistani-born Malik emigrated to California on a fiancee visa in 2014, made the joint pledge to Khalifah Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi Al Qurashi, the emir of the self-proclaimed Islamic State, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.

The apparent joint pledge is the latest clue to emerge from the expanding probe into the deadliest act of terrorism on U.S. soil since Sept. 11, 2001. The attack also wounded 21 people and has kicked off a fierce debate about how to keep the United States safe from attacks planned or inspired by groups such as the Islamic State, which is seeking to expand its reach into the West.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html

I don't know about you, but if somebody yells "Hail HYDRA!" right before they launch an attack, I think it's reasonable to assume that they were motivated by a support for HYDRA....*

(Especially if they spent months communicating back and forth about how much they agree with HYDRA...)

it may be that the guy was pissed off at his coworkers for some reason and decided to use some of the weapons to exact revenge.

As I said earlier that may very well be true, but it doesn't change the basic motivation:

The "this was just work place violence" theory has been completely blown up (no pun intended) by the 12 bombs (and tools and materials to make even more bombs) and the thousands of rounds of ammunition found at the house...

Farook may very well have picked his work place as the first target, (I suppose it goes without saying that he didn't particularly care for his co-workers, since he, uh, you know,murdered them en masse) but clearly he did not intend it to be his last one...

But at this point, just based on what's known publicly now about this guy; his beliefs, his contacts, his travel, and his accomplice, one has to be a very VERY dedicated Islamist-terrorism denier indeed to somehow try to rationalize that this was anything other than an act of Islamist terrorism...

And to this we can now add the evidence of their pre-meeting online comunications...

This isn't even a case of "if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck"...

This more on the order of:

"If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, feeds like a duck, has the same skeletal structure as a duck, and has the same DNA make up as a duck, it must be a duck"....












*those who aren't fans of the Marvel franchise won't get the reference...

[Big RR]

Jim--you may well be right, but I'll await additional evidence.

[MajGenl.Meade]

He's waiting for the smoking confession

[Lord Jim]

I respect Big RR, so I'm trying very hard to not tip over into sarcasm...

But I can't imagine what more evidence one could be waiting for...

A photo of Farook kissing al-Bigdaddy full on the mouth?

(Oh damn, I just failed at not tipping over into sarcasm... )

[MajGenl.Meade]

[MajGenl.Meade]

Planned Parenthood shooter: "I am guilty ... a warrior for the babies"

Robert Dear Jr. declares his guilt in shooting at Colorado Springs clinic as 179 charges are announced

[Lord Jim]

Yes, well maybe he had an anti-abortion motivation...

But I'm awaiting more evidence....

[Big RR]

OK Jim, my point is this; I concede he and his wife were radical islamists and had stockpiled weapons for them or someone else to use in an attack. However, I am no convinced that this was such an attack. Everything a radical islamist does, even an act of violence, is not necessarily terrorism; e.g. if he used the one of the weapons to kill his wife it would more likely be domestic violence than terrorism, and that is my concern here. Again, I personally think this was likely prompted by a dispute with one or more coworkers, a private attack like this is not the way terrorism usually operates. so I question whether this is workplace violence, even though it does appear that he may well have been planning or abetting another attack of the public kind.

What kind of evidence would I like to see? Perhaps a claim by him/her or some radical group that it was done as a terrorist attack; terrorists are rarely shy about stating this after attacks, but I have not seen anything.

Again, as I said above, whether it is terrorism or not doesn't matter all that much to me in how he should be treated; the people are just as dead/maimed regardless of the motivation, and either way they deserve to be punished as the murderers they are.

You're doing a good job not being sarcastic, since I am certain you are viewing this differently than I am. But I am not trying to split hairs here, only trying to explain an alternative view to the one you put forth.

Meade--I have always come to expect the sarcasm from you, so carry on.

[wesw]

FBI director Comey s testimony before the senate today shed more light on the terrorists past, but you ll have to find it yourselves, I m sick of google for the day.....

maybe it was the house, I m not even sure, but he testified today and it had a lot of info.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Yes, well maybe he had an anti-abortion motivation...

But I'm awaiting more evidence....

Thanks, Big RR! I hate to disappoint... other than in bed but you'll never know (be grateful). Actually I get you - something along the lines of "Remember that big terrorist attack on the Rose Bowl we planned for your birthday? Well, screw that. I wanna go shoot those assholes at work, right now... c'mon, c'mon". It is a valid point (and that's without sarcasm)

[dgs49]

The only question remaining is whether this particular attack was directed by a recognized terrorist group or leader, or was simply cooked up by these two Muslims.

The whole "workplace violence" theory is uncorroborated nonsense.

As always, the media is ignoring what I think is one of the most important elements of this episode: They clearly expected to get away with this, and intended to go on with their lives as if nothing had happened, and carry out more attacks in the future. In no way were they "suicide" attackers.

Is this a phenomenon that we will see in the future as well?

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well dgs, you cannot discount the recent soccer violence in Paris - very typical of the sport. And the concert violence too - it happens, even in France. Young people - you know. Too also, we can't forget that riots in cafes can get out of hand. Cars do explode from time to time... trains in addition furthermore. There have been lawsuits over product liability involving those - and planes falling down. If only we could be certain about anything - even certainty itself - or if I actually exist... one doesn't know what to think. Therefore, I'm not.