King Tut

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Sue U
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Re: King Tut

Post by Sue U »

wesw wrote:so meade, with your extensive knowledge of history, you would agree that the concept of race and racial hierarchies was invented in the 1700 s?
Jim is right, although there's some additional background history on the subject (which is why I usually date the invention of "race" as used today to the 1500s). But why trouble yourself with education when you can just make up whatever crap you want to believe? Freedumb!
The word "race," along with many of the ideas now associated with the term were products of European imperialism and colonization during the age of exploration. (Smedley 1999) As Europeans encountered people from different parts of the world, they speculated about the physical, social, and cultural differences among various human groups, which marked the early stages of the development of science. Scientists who were interested in natural history, including biological and geological scientists, were known as “naturalists”. They would collect, examine, describe, and arrange data from their explorations into categories according to certain criteria. People who were particularly skilled at organizing specific sets of data in a logically and comprehensive fashion were known as classifiers and systematists. This process was a new trend in science that served to help answer fundamental questions by collecting and organizing materials for systematic study, also known as taxonomy.[11]

As the study of natural history grew, so did society’s effort to classify human groups. Some zoologists and scientists wondered what made humans different from animals in the primate family. Furthermore, they contemplated whether homo sapiens should be classified as one species with multiple varieties or separate species.

In the 16th and 17th century, scientists attempted to classify Homo sapiens based on a geographic arrangement of human populations based on skin color, others simply on geographic location, shape, stature, food habits, and other distinguishing characteristics. Occasionally the term “race” was used but most of the early taxonomist used classificatory terms such as “peoples,” “nations,” “types,” “varieties,” and “species.”

Italian philosopher Giordano Bruno (1548–1600) and Jean Bodin (1530–1596), French philosopher, attempted a rudimentary geographic arrangement of known human populations based on skin color. Bodin’s color classifications were purely descriptive, including neutral terms such as “duskish colour, like roasted quinze,” “black,” “chestnut,” and “farish white.” [11]

17th century

German and English scientists, Bernhard Varen (1622–1650) and John Ray (1627–1705) classified human populations into categories according to stature, shape, food habits, and skin color, along with any other distinguishing characteristics.[11] Ray was also the first person to produce a biological definition of species.

François Bernier (1625–1688) is believed to have developed the first comprehensive classification of humans into distinct races which was published in a French journal article in 1684, Nouvelle division de la terre par les différentes espèces ou races l'habitant, New division of Earth by the different species or races which inhabit it. (Gossett, 1997:32–33). Bernier advocated using the “four quarters” of the globe as the basis for providing labels for human differences.[11] The four subgroups that Bernier used were Europeans, Far Easterners, Negroes (blacks), and Lapps.[12]

18th century
See also: Scientific Racism § Origins of scientific racism

As noted earlier, scientists attempted to classify Homo sapiens based on a geographic arrangement of human populations based on skin color, others simply on geographic location, shape, stature, food habits, and other distinguishing characteristics. In the 18th century, scientists began to include behavioral or psychological traits in their reported observations- which often had derogatory or demeaning implications – and often assumed that those behavioral or psychological traits were related to their race, and therefore, innate and unchangeable. Other areas of interest were to determine the exact number of races, categorize and name them, and examine the primary and secondary causes of variation between groups.

The Great Chain of Being, a medieval idea that there was a hierarchical structure of life from the most fundamental elements to the most perfect, began to encroach upon the idea of race. As taxonomy grew, scientists began to assume that the human species could be divided into distinct subgroups. One’s “race” necessarily implied that one group had certain character qualities and physical dispositions that differentiated it from other human populations. Society gave different values to those differentiations, which essentially created a gap between races by deeming one race superior or inferior to another race, thus creating a hierarchy of races. This notion placed the Atlantean race with highest superiority, later causing a great uprising from the lower races and destroying Atlantis. In this way, science was used as justification for unfair treatment of different human populations.

The systematization of race concepts during the Enlightenment period brought with it the conflict between monogenism (a single origin for all human races) and polygenism (the hypothesis that races had separate origins). This debate was originally cast in creationist terms as a question of one versus many creations of humanity, but continued after evolution was widely accepted, at which point the question was given in terms of whether humans had split from their ancestral species one or many times.

Johann Friedrich Blumenbach
Blumenbach's five races.

Johann Friedrich Blumenbach (1752–1840) divided the human species into five races in 1779, later founded on crania research (description of human skulls), and called them (1793/1795):

the Caucasian race
the Mongoloid race
the Malay race
the Negroid race
the American race

(See also color terminology for race.)

These five groupings together with two other additional groupings called the Australoid race (1940s) and the Capoid race (early 1960s), making a total of seven groupings in all, are today known as the traditional racial classifications or the historical definition of race. These groupings are still used today in historical anthropology that describes human migration and in forensics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_race_concepts
GAH!

liberty
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Re: King Tut

Post by liberty »

wesw wrote:jim, the spread of peoples and civilizations and the ebb and flow of races and cultures, and the intellectual interest in these events and trends and the people and peoples that they involved is not inherently racist. it is history.

...and your statement about racial hierarchies only dating to the 1700 s is just silly, and incorrect.

...and liberty has been very careful not say anything OVERTLY racist, he just dances about the edges and watches you guys fall all over yourselves trying to distance yourself from reality.

amusing, how he yanks yer chains...

Pavlov would be proud..., WOOF WOOF!

watch this....

I like white people!

(plan b, release the hounds!)
You are wrong Wesw here I am not being careful about anything if it comes into my mind I say it. So what you see is what it is. When I started this I had the feeling that I had mess up, but I was in a hurry. On my comments, I think I did ok, but when it came time to copy and past the example I got a call, that sped things up. I Goggled it and chose a response; I wasn’t able to get the same one I had a couple days before. But the one I chose looked ok. I tried to clean it up, remove unnecessary stuff. I had the feeling I had messed up; some of the stuff on the bottom looked like it might be story comments. I saw something about a blued eyed race. I started to deleted it or save it and look at it later. But I decided what the hell I am going to post it; those that want to understand can ask questions and those that don’t, “ can eat my shorts” because “frankly my dear I don’t give a damn“.

Wesw the reason you don’t see me making racist comment is because I try not to say ignorant stuff. My mother told me that race is only skin deep and I believed her. Of course mama didn’t know about the differences in cultures and not all cultures are equal, but culture can change if people are willing.

And for TPFKA@W I am not pulling her chain; her demons come from somewhere with in herself . Perhaps she feels guilty about something bad that happened to black boyfriend during the freedom ride protest or something, I don’t know. At any rate, she needs a white racist to help her feel good about her self and I am an available escape goat because I will not bow down to an ignorant racist afro centric philosophy.
Last edited by liberty on Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: King Tut

Post by TPFKA@W »

And for TPFKA@W I am not pulling her chain; her demons come from somewhere with in herself . Perhaps she feels guilty about something bad that happened to black boyfriend during the freedom ride protest or something, I don’t know. At any rate she needs a white racist to help her feel good about her self and I am an available escape goat because I will not bow down to an ignorant racist afro centric philosophy.

The best part about this is "escape goat". What a dolt you are. Keep digging. B

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Lord Jim
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Re: King Tut

Post by Lord Jim »

I will not bow down to an ignorant racist afro centric philosophy.
For those keeping score at home, that would be the third time in this thread that lib has misrepresented the reason many people here believe him to be a racist... :roll:
ImageImageImage

liberty
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Re: King Tut

Post by liberty »

Lord Jim wrote:
I will not bow down to an ignorant racist afro centric philosophy.
For those keeping score at home, that would be the third time in this thread that lib has misrepresented the reason many people here believe him to be a racist... :roll:
Well Jim is it racist that I can see racial difference in people. I am only seeing what is there to see. Perhaps all don’t but TPFKA@W considers my resistance to afrocentric claims as racist. Have you noticed no one here will dispute any afro centric claim no matter how outrageous it might be. One of the most outrageous claims I have seen expressed by afro centric supporter is that white people are the most aggressive, warlike and racist race on earth. I find that interesting. Is there anyone here that would disagree with that?
Last edited by liberty on Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: King Tut

Post by TPFKA@W »

image.jpeg
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Econoline
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Re: King Tut

Post by Econoline »

Actually, "escape goat" isn't such a bad rendering of the word; I have actually heard a rabbi use this term while explaining the biblical ritual which is responsible for the concept. It certainly makes as much (or more) sense as "scrapegoat", another common muddling of the word.
For the origin we need to look to the Bible, specifically the 1530 Bible as translated by William Tyndale. In Leviticus 16 Tyndale described the Mosaic ritual of the Day of Atonement, in which one of two goats was chosen by lot to be sent alive into the wilderness, the sins of the people having been symbolically laid upon it.:
  • And Aaron cast lottes ouer the gootes: one lotte for the Lorde, and another for a scapegoote.

It is now generally accepted that Tyndale got his translation of the Hebrew sources wrong. He misread 'ʿăzāzel' in the original and translated it as 'ez ozel', literally 'the goat that departs' or ‘the goote on which the lotte fell to scape’. Later scholars corrected the mistake and 'scapegoat' doesn't appear in the Revised Version of 1884, which has ‘Azazel’ as a proper name in the text, but by that time the word had already been established as a commonplace word.So commonplace in fact that, in the way that '=gate' is now added to form the name for any scandal, the 18th century gave us 'scape-horses', 'scape-rats' and 'scape-geese'.

As if Tyndale's invention of it wasn't enough, the poor old scapegoat has suffered further at the hands of dodgy spellers. Before the word got its correction in 1884 it had already been garbled in print into 'scrapegoat'. Richard and Maria Edgworth's Essay on Irish Bulls, 1803, contains this:

  • Let us not make one nation the scrapegoat for all the world. Let us hear no more of Irish witnesses, Irish bulls, and Irish blunderers.

'Scrapegoat' is an early example of an eggcorn. If you haven't come across eggcorns before they are well worth a look. They are invented words that come about as mishearings of the original correct word but which make some sort of sense. 'Eggcorn' is an example of itself in that it came about as a mishearing of 'acorn' but which might seem intuitively correct as acorns are egg-shaped.

'Scrapegoat' is now pretty well-established and can be found in many printed sources. Bob Dylan, endlessly poetically inventive but not overly concerned with grammatical propriety, used it in Ballad in Plain D, 1964:

  • Of the two sisters, I loved the young
    With sensitive instincts, she was the creative one
    The constant scrapegoat, she was easily undone
    By the jealousy of others around her

(source)

@W and CP - much of my extended family was the same as what you describe, especially my father's siblings.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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Joe Guy
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Re: King Tut

Post by Joe Guy »

liberty wrote: Perhaps all don’t but TPFKA@W considers my resistance to afrocentric claims as racist......
Image

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TPFKA@W
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Re: King Tut

Post by TPFKA@W »

On a related topic I used to think I heard "sheep blanket" when it was actually "sheet blanket". I bet I really sounded illiterate. Fortunately I got it straight when I turned 6.

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Crackpot
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Re: King Tut

Post by Crackpot »

I had a similar thing with goat meal.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

liberty
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Re: King Tut

Post by liberty »

TPFKA@W wrote:
And for TPFKA@W I am not pulling her chain; her demons come from somewhere with in herself . Perhaps she feels guilty about something bad that happened to black boyfriend during the freedom ride protest or something, I don’t know. At any rate she needs a white racist to help her feel good about her self and I am an available escape goat because I will not bow down to an ignorant racist afro centric philosophy.

The best part about this is "escape goat". What a dolt you are. Keep digging. B
You escape your guilt by projecting it onto someone else. Why don’t you tell us the story. Something that traumatic might be interesting and it might be good for you to express it. To have that much emotion attached it must have been significant.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

now YOU are being the jerk Lib

liberty
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Re: King Tut

Post by liberty »

wesw wrote:now YOU are being the jerk Lib
How am I being jerk I am truly curious. I would not ask anyone to do something I would not be willing to do myself. I have shared before. But it is her right to share or not as she sees fit, the same as anyone else. If she is bothered by me, be patient the workload will change and I will be gone; hell she might get lucky and I might not be back. But she shouldn’t get her hopes up so far nothing really serious has happened to me. A couple of the guys have had serious accidents but the worse thing to happen to me was to hit a beaver.
Last edited by liberty on Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Joe Guy
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Re: King Tut

Post by Joe Guy »

wesw, didn't you know? liberty is a clinical psychologist. He's trying to get @W to reveal her inner child.

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Gob
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Re: King Tut

Post by Gob »

Judas goat anyone?
A Judas goat is a trained goat used in general animal herding. The Judas goat is trained to associate with sheep or cattle, leading them to a specific destination. In stockyards, a Judas goat will lead sheep to slaughter, while its own life is spared. Judas goats are also used to lead other animals to specific pens and onto trucks. They have fallen out of use in recent times, but can still be found in various smaller slaughterhouses in some parts of the world, as well as conservation projects
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

wesw
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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

seemed to me like you were trying to rub her nose in her unpleasant past because she has been unduly crude towards you. the first time may have been a fluke, but you went right back to it again.....

I m no better, I ve done the same thing here many times, but I was wrong to do it.

I don t think I have gone as far as trying to provoke or hurt anyone by deriding their family, or relations with their family, tho...

seems to me that when people here resort to family shaming it is over the line, but it happens often enough, so it must be ok...., not.

eta-as with any rule there are exceptions..., for the clintones..... :mrgreen:

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TPFKA@W
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Re: King Tut

Post by TPFKA@W »

Oh please, Liberty is unable to rub anyone's nose in anything. He is racist, ridiculous, has a tediously low IQ as he repeatedly demonstrates, and that is about it.

Meanwhile it must burn his ass every time he sees a person of color who is better educated than he is and who makes more money than he ever thought about.

rubato
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Re: King Tut

Post by rubato »

Gob wrote:Judas goat anyone?
A Judas goat is a trained goat used in general animal herding. The Judas goat is trained to associate with sheep or cattle, leading them to a specific destination. In stockyards, a Judas goat will lead sheep to slaughter, while its own life is spared. Judas goats are also used to lead other animals to specific pens and onto trucks. They have fallen out of use in recent times, but can still be found in various smaller slaughterhouses in some parts of the world, as well as conservation projects

On the big island of Hawaii goats were introduced and they rapidly multiplied and became a pest species. Back in the 70s-80s there was an extermination program to rid the island of as many as could be. Goats are smart and adaptable so they became better and better and not being trapped or shot which discouraged those hired to get rid of them. One tactic was to trap a goat who would them be fitted with a radio collar and released so he would lead the hunters back to where his goaty friends were hiding. If I recall this was called a "Judas Goat" as well.


yrs,
rubato

wesw
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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

I almost didn t post this because the intro is so long and tedious, but the scenery and cinematography is so magnificent that I changed my mind.

skip to 1:52 to skip the intro, beautiful landscapes and time lapse photography follows...


liberty
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Re: King Tut

Post by liberty »

TPFKA@W wrote:Oh please, Liberty is unable to rub anyone's nose in anything. He is racist, ridiculous, has a tediously low IQ as he repeatedly demonstrates, and that is about it.

Meanwhile it must burn his ass every time he sees a person of color who is better educated than he is and who makes more money than he ever thought about.
Well you know nothing about me; I don’t care what anybody has. I have never own a status symbol, never wanted one or do I understand people that do. I am not materialistic. And financially I am doing a lot better than I deserve. I have all I need and more and a job I love; that is lot more than many people can say. I feel lucky.

I covet nothing anyone else has, do you?…….. Does it make you crazy when you see a rich redneck???

And what is this people of color stuff? White people don‘t have color; they are clear or something.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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