What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

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Econoline
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Econoline »

Good point:
(Trigger warning for Lord Jim: it's from Paul Krugman's blog.)
Deadly Snits

Josh Marshall has a great term for what is happening in Oregon: white privilege performance art. We have people engaging in armed insurrection over the vast oppression of being asked to pay a small fee when grazing their animals on public land; surely an important part of the story is the fact that the perpetrators know that they won’t face the consequences that would follow if, you know, some nonwhite group pulled a similar stunt — and they’re be Fox News heroes forever after. [<- see my later post below for an explanation of this strikeout]

Something that strikes me, however — and which I don’t fully understand — is that when people like this turn to angry rhetoric, with at least a hint of violence, the trigger events tend to be trivial. There are plenty of real grievances that could be motivating working-class whites; but what sets them, or their would-be spokesmen, off are things like the belief that Obama is giving debt relief to Those People (which basically never even happened), or this. Here’s Erick Erickson engaged in what could be considered an incitement to violence:
  • At what point do the people tell the politicians to go to hell? At what point do they get off the couch, march down to their state legislator’s house, pull him outside, and beat him to a bloody pulp for being an idiot?

So what motivated this rage? Regulations banning phosphate in dishwasher detergent, which Erickson believed was causing his dishes to get inadequately cleaned.

There has to be some significance in the awesome triviality of the things that induce rage. But I don’t understand it.
Last edited by Econoline on Sat Jan 09, 2016 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sean
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Sean »

Tense Standoff Ends As Oregon Militia Return Home To Fuck Their Sisters


JUST a few short days after seizing a federal building in Oregon, USA, an armed militia has stood down after realising that they would be unable to have sex with their family members while the siege continued.
The group had been occupying part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, after exploiting a loophole in the American justice system which states that law enforcement officers are not allowed to use force against people clad in body armour carrying machine guns who storm a federal building in the event of those people being white.

Claiming to be protesting against the sentencing of a pair of ranchers convicted of poaching and arson, the group has been represented in interviews by well known anti-government activist Ammon Bundy, who cannot be called a terrorist for reasons that are currently unclear.
Although the group claimed to be willing to stay entrenched for as long as was needed to have their demands met, many of the 150-strong militia began to file out of the government building after an agonising two days of not banging their sisters.
“It is our constitutional right as white Americans to walk around carrying automatic weapons and seize buildings in an attempt to force our ideology across,” said one protester, possibly called Chuck.
“With that being said, I haven’t had me a piece of my sister in almost two days, so I’m off home. Take care, God bless America, and watch out for them Muslim bastards while you’re at it”.
It is believed that the last of the holdouts will have cleared out by nightfall, and will be enjoying some well-earned sister sex as soon as they’ve had a nice hot squirrel dinner.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/0 ... r-sisters/
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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Econoline
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Econoline »

People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

the fact that the perpetrators know that they won’t face the consequences that would follow if, you know, some nonwhite group pulled a similar stunt — and they’re be Fox News heroes forever after.
Two words:

(1) Waco

(ii) "they're be"?

Three.... there are three words.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by wesw »

oh come on. the black lives matter group occupied numerous public buildings and weren t subjected to forcible removal or prosecution

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Lord Jim
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Lord Jim »

they won’t face the consequences that would follow if, you know, some nonwhite group pulled a similar stunt — and they’re be Fox News heroes forever after.
Oregon Occupiers to Face Charges When Siege Ends: Sheriff

The anti-government activists who took over a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon are going to face federal charges when the siege is over, the local sheriff told NBC News on Wednesday.

"The (FBI) has assured me that those at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge will at some point face charges," Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward told NBC News.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ore ... ff-n491366

And I've seen no evidence that these jokers are being treated as "heroes" on Fox news programs, but then Krudman has never been one to let facts get in the way of his ideological narrative...

He's a shining example of some of the points raised in this article:
Liberals take the low road in Oregon standoff

Over the weekend, a bunch of guys with legally procured guns took over a federal bird sanctuary in the Malhuer National Wildlife Refuge in rural Oregon. They did so as a protest on behalf of two local ranchers, the Hammonds, who are being sent back to prison. The two men had previously been found guilty of committing arson, but even though they were required to serve a mandatory five years in prison, a judge gave them a lesser sentence. Now, after an unusual appeal by the prosecutor, they are being returned to a federal penitentiary to complete their full sentence.

Now, granted the seizure of federal property is nothing to sneeze at; certainly not when the men doing it are armed with high-caliber weapons and have spoken of responding to police efforts to dislodge them with force. Moreover, those involved include the son of Cliven Bundy, the Nevada rancher locked in a long-standing dispute with federal officials over the use of federal land for cattle grazing.

These fights between right-wing Westerners and the federal government are not new, though Bundy took it to a new level last year by bringing in armed civilians to “protect” his ranch — and forcing the federal government to back down. But this is not a rebellion or an insurrection and, in some respects, those involved have a legitimate beef — sending someone who has already served time back to prison is not a normal circumstance and one that, in certain situations, would enrage not just conservatives but liberals.

Yet, it’s been liberals, in the days since the militia seizure, who have been loudly calling for blood — and pointing out alleged double standards. On Twitter, regular comparisons have been made between the response in Oregon and the shootings by police of black youths like 17-year-old Laquan McDonald and 12-year-old Tamir Rice. One widely retweeted tweet even went so far as to posit a “crazy idea” to “treat armed adult white militia like they’re unarmed black children. Just for one day.”

This is, to put it mildly, an over-reaction and a damaging one at that. If one believes that police should not be using deadly force against children (you can count me in that group), then calling for deadly force to be used against gun-toting whites is just a tad hypocritical.

The Washington Post asked why those in Oregon aren’t being branded terrorists. The answer is actually rather simple: Nothing this group has done looks or sounds like terrorism. No violence has occurred; no one has yet been harmed, and these individuals, as bizarre as it may seem, are legally allowed to possess the guns they have for protection.

The “explainer” site Vox complained that even though there was a Twitter hashtag #Oregonunderattack, The New York Times shrugged at the story by “only” giving it an above-the-fold sidebar.

The liberal news site Think Progress compared the muted response of federal officials to the seizure in Oregon by armed with whites with the more aggressive 1985 standoff between Philadelphia police and the black nationalist group MOVE —
as if Waco and Ruby Ridge, in which dozens of white Americans were killed, had never happened.
[It should also be mentioned that the decision to drop the "incendiary device" on the MOVE headquartes was made by Wilson Goode, the African-American then Mayor of Philadelphia..but again, don't let those pesky facts get in the way of the narrative...]

It’s worth keeping in mind that in Ruby Ridge, an innocent, unarmed woman was shot and killed by an FBI sniper while holding a 10-month-old baby. In Waco, 76 Branch Davidians, including many children, were killed when the FBI sought to resolve that more than seven-week siege. In addition, four ATF agents were killed as well. Those botched raids are no doubt influencing how to handle this situation.

No law enforcement is going to send their officers into harm’s way to resolve this issue; and no liberal should want them to. Just as self-preservation is all too often what leads police to recklessly fire on black teenagers, the desire not to send officers against armed civilians is no doubt a paramount concern. These individuals are in an isolated locale, there are — as far as we know — no innocent civilians present, and they could just as easily be cut off from food and water and forced to depart. Force is and should be a last resort.

But this whole incident — and the reaction to it — is also a worthwhile reminder that the political polarization in American society is increasingly leading to a frenzied inclination to tribalism by both conservatives and liberals. Just as many on the right view the Black Lives Matter movement in harshly negative, occasionally racist terms, the immediate reaction to the incident in Oregon was harshly negative, stereotypical, and contradictory. These two are not the same; and the Black Lives Matter movement rests on stronger ground than ranchers who don’t want to pay grazing fees or adhere to the rule of law.

But it’s worth keeping in mind that not everything is about what you want it to be about; and not every situation can so easily be analogized to your pet cause. We’d all do a little better in checking our biases, before checking Twitter or Facebook to see which side we should take in the crisis du jour. :ok

Michael A. Cohen’s column appears regularly in the Globe.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/201 ... story.html
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wesw
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by wesw »

you know, I find the bundys to be despicable people.

I find people who play the sister fucker card, instead of using reason to make their points, to be just as despicable and just as stupid.

I don t eat squirrel, but I would love a nice rabbit.....

...and I d eat a squirrel before I d eat snails or tortured goose liver.....

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

I never torture the geese I eat. :mrgreen:

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Econoline
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Econoline »

Since everyone seems to have missed what I took to be the main point of the piece that I quoted (I expected it from Jim, who has full-blown Krugman Derangement Syndrome--but there were others) and focused on a half-sentence at the end of the first paragraph...

I thought I'd eliminate the offending part and re-post the interesting part:
(Trigger warning for Lord Jim: it's STILL from Paul Krugman's blog.)
Deadly Snits

Josh Marshall has a great term for what is happening in Oregon: white privilege performance art. We have people engaging in armed insurrection over the vast oppression of being asked to pay a small fee when grazing their animals on public land...

Something that strikes me, however — and which I don’t fully understand — is that when people like this turn to angry rhetoric, with at least a hint of violence, the trigger events tend to be trivial. There are plenty of real grievances that could be motivating working-class whites; but what sets them, or their would-be spokesmen, off are things like the belief that Obama is giving debt relief to Those People (which basically never even happened), or this. Here’s Erick Erickson engaged in what could be considered an incitement to violence:
  • At what point do the people tell the politicians to go to hell? At what point do they get off the couch, march down to their state legislator’s house, pull him outside, and beat him to a bloody pulp for being an idiot?

So what motivated this rage? Regulations banning phosphate in dishwasher detergent, which Erickson believed was causing his dishes to get inadequately cleaned.

There has to be some significance in the awesome triviality of the things that induce rage. But I don’t understand it.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

There are plenty of real grievances that could be motivating working-class whites
OK - so is that the take-away? What are these "real" grievances that might justify occupying a chicken hutch in the middle of nowhere?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Gob
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Gob »

Image

Shouldn't these guys be working instead of trying to get the government to give them free stuff?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

rubato
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by rubato »

Having your brothers neck broken while handcuffed in the back of a paddy wagon.

For one


Yes,
Rubato

rubato
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by rubato »

wesw wrote:oh come on. the black lives matter group occupied numerous public buildings and weren t subjected to forcible removal or prosecution

And we're not armed or wearing body armor.

If they had been they would have been burned to death, like MOVE.


Yes,
Rubato

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Gob
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Gob »

rubato wrote:Having your brothers neck broken while handcuffed in the back of a paddy wagon.

For one


Yes,
Rubato
How many brothers had their necks broken, and who handcuffed their necks in the back of a paddy wagon?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by wesw »

rube, they were burning and looting.

these bundys are real pieces of work, but they are out in the boonies and only putting themselves in danger, and inconveniencing bird watchers....

I haven t even heard them threaten anyone.

unlike the BLM movement.

why am I even arguing with you?

hey!

BLM= black lives matter? BLM= bureau of land management?

coincidence? :lol:

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Lord Jim
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Lord Jim »

Jim, who has full-blown Krugman Derangement Syndrome--
Oh pu-lezze... :roll:

Do you have Limbaugh or Coulter "Derangement Syndrome"?

I have "Lying Weasel Ideological Hack Derangement Syndrome"...

It's not my fault that The Liar Krugman happens to fit that description to a tee...

That's on him.... 8-)
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wesw
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by wesw »

ooooh, krugman....

I thought that it said 'klugman', and that jim liked things messy.....

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Lord Jim
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Lord Jim »

In reviewing your truncated version of Krugman's crap Econo, two things come to mind:

First, just who the hell does this arrogant twit think he is to be deciding for other people what they do and don't have a right to be upset about? (Leave it to Krugman to figure out a way to actually get me to defend these jackasses... :roll: )

Second, the key word is "trigger"; a lot of time the actual event that brings about the "upset" may seem small, but there are either deeper underlying reasons or a string of events, and this is just "the last straw"...

But apparently Krugman lacks the intellectual depth and curiosity to explore this, preferring instead just to look down his nose from his position of imagined superiority in a sneering and condescending manner at "working class whites"...

Those are my take-aways.... 8-)
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Gob
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by Gob »

“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

wesw
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Re: What you need to know about the Oregon standoff

Post by wesw »

looks like the list we made before we went camping for a week.....

...ours was a lot shorter tho.

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