Sense

[Gob]

A landmark High Court ruling has deemed it legal for householders to deploy 'disproportionate force' against intruders.

The so-called 'householder defence' was introduced by former Justice Secretary Chris Grayling to 'toughen up' self defence laws 'for those who defend themselves and their loved ones'.

It was challenged by Peter Collins, the father of Denby Collins who remains in a coma after being tackled and restrained when he entered a house in Gillingham, Kent, allegedly as an 'intruder'.

However, the High Court today ruled that home owners did not breach human rights laws by attacking burglars.

Force which is 'grossly disproportionate' remains illegal, but no longer are families forced to be wary about taking on a raider.

Today's ruling lays down guidelines for how courts in England and Wales should deal with such cases in the future.

Two judges decided that the criminal law on self-defence in householder cases is compatible with the European Convention on Human Rights.

But they warned that the effect of Section 76(5A) 'is not to give householders carte blanche in the degree of force they use against intruders in self-defence'.

President of the Queen's Bench Division Sir Brian Leveson, sitting with Mr Justice Cranston, declared: 'A jury must ultimately determine whether the householder's action was reasonable in the circumstances as he believed them to be.

'The headline message is and remains clear: a householder will only be able to avail himself of the defence if the degree of force he used was reasonable in the circumstances as he believed them to be.'

Agreeing with the president, Mr Justice Cranston said the 'plain words' of the section read in their legal context 'mean that in householder cases the force used in self-defence is not unreasonable simply because it is disproportionate - unless, of course, it is grossly disproportionate'.

The case arose after the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) decided in September 2014 not to prosecute the homeowner in the Collins case - referred to as 'B' for legal reasons.

Paul Bowen QC, acting for the father, asked the judges to rule that the decision was incompatible with the State's obligation under Article 2(1) of the human rights convention to protect the right to life.

But the judges ruled there were 'reasonable safeguards' in place to meet that obligation.

Sir Brian said: 'In the circumstances I conclude that the criminal law of England and Wales on self defence in householder cases, taken as a whole, fulfils the framework obligation under Article 2(1).'

The Collins family still want B prosecuted for causing Denby grievous bodily harm, either with or without intent, contrary to the Offences Against the Person Act 1861.

A statement released by their lawyers stressed that the family were 'disappointed' with the court's ruling and are considering an appeal.

It read: 'Denby Collins has been in a coma since December 2013, having been put in a neck lock and restrained on the floor by a householder who claimed to believe that he was an intruder into his home.

'Denby's parents are confident that, had the incident in which Denby was subjected to life-threatening force occurred nine months earlier, then the householder - and quite possibly at least one of the other four persons involved in the restraint - would have been charged and prosecuted for unlawful wounding or another offence of violence.'

The family statement said: 'Denby's family continue to believe that the current law insufficiently protects a member of the public from extreme violence being used in self-defence where, for example, the person is left in a coma or is killed because they're treated, rightly or wrongly, as an intruder into someone's home.

'They continue to hold the view that it should be sufficient for the CPS to prove that force used by anyone in self-defence is disproportionate for a person to be convicted for an act of violence of this type.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3xMUSg0vh

[TPFKA@W]

The laws on this in the UK are absolutely nuts. Anyone comes through my door uninvited they will be beaten til they can't walk with a good Louisville slugger.

[dales]

I'm armed (something impossible in the UK) and have things well under control.

[Econoline]

• "...allegedly as an 'intruder'..."
  
  "...a householder who claimed to believe that he was an intruder into his home..."
  
  "...treated, rightly or wrongly, as an intruder into someone's home..."

I'm bewildered by phrases like this throughout the article. Was Denby Collins an intruder, or not? (i.e., did he have the householder's permission to enter, or not?) Surely that can't be considered irrelevant in a case like this?


ETA: of course in the good ol' US of A the family of the intruder (or the "intruder", if you prefer) would have shrugged off the criminal proceedings, or lack of same, and gone straight for the multimillion dollar civil suit...

[wesw]

this is the same country that says.. "so called" Islamic state, like its a fig newton of our imaginations....

meade, still calls us colonists...

...but he Is an expert on colons.

when he removes his head from his colon, and sees a shadow, Cleveland knows that it will be having a long winter.

most heard phrase in Cleveland in February....

"uh, meade, are you sure you saw a shadow, not just..., well, youknow...., poop on your glasses"?

and on years with no shadow....

"meade is my favorite shithead"

its all true. I wouldn t shit you. you are my favorite turd!

[Gob]

• "...allegedly as an 'intruder'..."
  
  "...a householder who claimed to believe that he was an intruder into his home..."
  
  "...treated, rightly or wrongly, as an intruder into someone's home..."

I'm bewildered by phrases like this throughout the article. Was Denby Collins an intruder, or not? (i.e., did he have the householder's permission to enter, or not?) Surely that can't be considered irrelevant in a case like this?

Probably as he's in a coma, he hasn't been charged and found guilty.

[Lord Jim]

Someone who breaks into my house is going to find themselves on the receiving end of very "disproportionate force"...

[MajGenl.Meade]

There's incontrovertible evidence in this thread that sense isn't always followed by sensibility...

[datsunaholic]

I was surprised a few years ago that a friend of mine wasn't sued or cited for disproportionate force against a car thief. Put the guy in the hospital (then jail). It did cost my friend a replacement door for a '68 Nova. He almost got it to latch with the thief's leg in the opening...

[rubato]

I was surprised a few years ago that a friend of mine wasn't sued or cited for disproportionate force against a car thief. Put the guy in the hospital (then jail). It did cost my friend a replacement door for a '68 Nova. He almost got it to latch with the thief's leg in the opening...

Someone was trying to steal a '68 Nova? On purpose?


yrs,
rubato

[Long Run]

He almost got it to latch with the thief's leg in the opening...

We had a case here 20 or so years ago where the homeowner saw a hood breaking into his car on the street. Came out shooting and killed the perp. Though this seemed to be clearly excessive force and the owner was charged, the jury exonerated. This is a natural consequence of the police not taking property crime seriously -- people know that the only real defense they have against property crime is the uncertainty in the criminal's mind that Walt Kowalski* will come hobbling down the steps with a loaded shot gun. And DAs know that given the level of frustration with property crime, they will have an uphill battle to convict.

*Clint Eastwood character in Gran Torino.

[rubato]

Just how many home-invasion robberies are there in GB?


yrs,
rubato

[Bicycle Bill]

Just how many home-invasion robberies are there in GB?

yrs,
rubato

If it was your place that had been invaded and robbed, rubato, that would be one too many and you wouldn't be asking such a damned-fool question.

-"BB"-

[Gob]

In the US, the FBI report lists 2.2M in 2009 (out of 114M households) (FBI).

Comparative rates: UK 1 per 41 households. USA 1 per 51 households. (USA dropped slightly overall since)

So you are around 20% more likely to be burgled in the UK, but hardly a massive difference.

However, how many burglaries are related to violent intent? "Assault" is very hard to compare as definitions vary (injury is not always a feature) but we do have stats for murders and rapes.

Murder UK total is 570 in 2012. (ONS)

Murder US total was 13,000 in 2009 (FBI)

Per 100K residents, that's 4 in the US vs. 0.9, so nearly 5X worse in the US. Again, the US rate dropped a few % but its still over 4.5X as high.