This happened a few miles from my house

[loCAtek]

As stated, they didn't have choppers to pursue him, and it was the suspect who escalated this to endangering the public. It could have ended at the routine stop and/or his voluntary surrender. It was law enforcement's duty to stop his felony aggression.

[Scooter]

Are you a windup doll or what? OF COURSE police have a duty to apprehend criminals. BUT they ALSO have a duty to take into account the crime being committed vs. the danger posed to the public in apprehending them. What is it about this that is so difficult for you to understand? Should the police indiscriminately spray a crowded street with machine gun fire in order to catch a fleeing shoplifter?

[Gob]

Thirded...

Canberra - Four people have died in another high speed police chase in Canberra, Australia, including a four-month-old baby boy. Police say the chase was "done by the book". The deaths come less than three months after another child died due to a police pursuit.

On New Year’s Eve, toddler Skye Sassine was killed when her family’s car was hit from behind by two robbers attempting a getaway in a high-speed police chase. Last night in Australia’s capital city, Canberra, another child died and so did his parents when they were hit by Justin Williams, a young man trying to evade the police in a stolen Mazda. The tragedy has brought high levels of criticism against the police for pursuing the car and panicking the driver.

New South Wales Police were conducting routine traffic checks in Queanbeyan, NSW on Saturday night when a stolen Mazda 626 sped past. The police gave chase and followed the car into the Australian Capital Territory and Canberra.

Driving the car was 23-year-old Justin ‘Mully’ Williams, from Queanbeyan. Sky Webb, 18-years-old, was in the passenger seat. Mr Williams was believed to be a disqualified driver with a criminal record.
According to NSW Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione, the police “acted appropriately and I am certain that they were simply doing their job.” The police cars followed Mr Williams toward the suburb of Narrabundah but stopped their pursuit when the Mazda ran a red light just before an exit ramp off Monaro Highway. Mr Williams then ran a second red light and hit the Mazda 3 vehicle carrying a family of three.

Scott Oppelaar, Sammantha Ford and their son Brodie died instantly when their car hit a tree and split in two. Brodie was four-months-old.

At the scene, Mr Williams was conscious and police arrested him. His passenger, Ms Webb was unconscious. They were both taken to Canberra Hospital. Mr Williams died shortly after arriving, and Ms Webb is in critical condition.

Though Mr Scipione has defended the police officers involved, telling reporters that everything had been “done by the book”, Nicki Oppelaar, the sister of Scott Oppelaar, has criticised their actions.
“My brother is dead now because the police chased this car to the point where he didn’t want to stop.”


Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/2 ... z16Y4KZBWU

Now I do not blame the police in this event, they did everything right, including calling off the chase when it was obvious Mully (who was already on bail for car theft etc etc etc etc adnauseum) was prepared to risk other people's lives.

Interestingly teh couple he killed were breaking their bail conditions by being out at that time.

[loCAtek]

Chingo, the cops didn't ask him to escalate, they just responded to it.


I was busted for the same damn thing last year and didn't initiate a high speed chase.

I just took my justice, and dealt with the consequences, rather than involve the innocent.

[Scooter]

Chingo, the cops didn't ask him to escalate, they just responded to it.

And so if the fleeing shoplifter doesn't stop as ordered, the police should spray a crowded street with machine gun fire to apprehend him. Thanks for confirming that .

[Sean]

...and their response escalated the situation.

[Crackpot]

You were driving with a stolen plate?

Seriously that alone is enough to put this beyond a routine stop. Unless it was stolen from the same model they know that going in. And it was the stated reason for the stop.

Edited to refine and add the last sentence

[loCAtek]

Strawman Scooter

Sean: So, they should not have responded to vehicular endangerment?

[Scooter]

Strawman Scooter

It is a reductio ad absurdam of the position you have taken.

[loCAtek]

You were driving with a stolen plate?

No-no, I was driving without registration and I put piece of blue tape (the color of the registration tag that year) to try and get away with it. A stolen plate or expired registration is a red flag that the car could be stolen: Grand Theft Auto- a felony.

The tactic of continuing the pursuit is known as 'herding';

What does a criminal do when the police terminate a pursuit? A National Institute of Justice researcher interviewed convicts and asked them to pretend the police terminated a pursuit, and then asked them to predict how much farther they would have run. According to this study, 70 percent of the 146 jailed suspects said that they would slow down "when I felt safe."5 No one has since replicated this type of study, and the authors feel there are good reasons to challenge the validity of the convict interviews. In reality, there is scant evidence showing that if the police shut down sirens and terminate pursuit, the fleeing felon will immediately drive the speed limit and eliminate further risk to the public. This is not most police officers' experience.

...

Opponents of restrictive policies argue that pursuit bans and restrictions will encourage lawlessness. Field reports suggest that adopting restrictive pursuit policies lead to an increase in some crimes, especially auto theft.6

There are also unintended consequences. When one agency adopts a restrictive pursuit policy, local criminals may become aware of the restrictions and modify their behavior. A meth addict in a stolen car might surrender to the police if he knows that an immediate pursuit will occur and an additional felony eluding conviction is possible. That same criminal might choose to run if he thinks the police cannot chase him.

...

The California Highway Patrol has twice analyzed pursuit statistics in that state. The second analysis, done in August 1995, has significant and persuasive evidentiary value.7 These statistics establish three critical points:

Point 1: The initiating crime and crime charged are not the same. Pursuit suspects are often charged with other significant felonies separate from the driving event.8 Most people would not lead officers on a high-speed chase for a defective equipment ticket or even a citation for expired license plates unless they had something to hide. The author's research has shown that people who run during traffic stops are involved in more serious criminal issues such as outstanding arrest warrants, drugs and illegal firearms in the vehicle.

Point 2: The risk of death or injury to a civilian is statistically low. As tragic as death may be, statistics shows that a civilian has a greater chance of being struck by lightning than being killed in a police pursuit.9

Point 3: The cost of abandoning pursuits is high. According to one study period by the California Highway Patrol, banning pursuits meant 66 murderers would go free, 190 robbers would be loose, and 4,000 felons would not be stopped.10

Source

[Scooter]

Speaking of straw men....

[loCAtek]

What? Exact description of why police pursue in the video.

[Scooter]

A narrative describing the pitfalls of complete bans police pursuits, or of advertising to criminals the circumstances when police might use their discretion not to engage in them, neither of which anyone here has proposed.

[loCAtek]

I could find the police procedure elsewhere I suppose, but the point was that this herding tactic was warranted.

[Scooter]

sigh

In EVERY circumstance?
For ANY infraction, no matter how minor?
With NO REGARD for the traffic conditions?
With COMPLETE INDIFFERENCE to the safety of innocent bystanders?

If you haven't gotten it yet, congratulations, the reflexive need to defend anything done by anyone in a uniform has defeated me. Carry on.

[loCAtek]

Strawmen again

[loCAtek]

Could he be charged with endangering the lives of other road users or a similar offense?

Yes "two counts of assault with a dangerous weapon (his car)"

From the video he was driving the wrong way for about forty seconds before he was stopped in a pinchers movement.

"One of the drivers... had two young daughters in her car, and in her statement she wrote that Deputy Ron Murphy saved their lives," said Captain Tony Wickersham with the Macomb County Sheriff's Department.