It takes balls of purest brass

[kmccune]

Most newer water mains are composed of "ductile iron" which has a lining in itself .Older watermains could be composed of most anything that would stand the pressure (some were even made of wood ) various types of brass ,contain varying amounts of lead ,depending on the alloy ,the NSF has pretty much banned lead in contact with drinking water nowadays .Even plastics can leach certain amounts of heavy metals under unusual conditions ,such as cadmium I believe ,which was used as a "plasticizer " in some types of plastics ,some of these metals are very toxic even in very small quantities.

[BoSoxGal]

Heard a very interesting discussion of this case on NPR today; haven't had time for much news in recent weeks so this was the first I'd heard details of what occurred and it is sickening - the keeping quiet and/or outright lying about the water quality by both MDEQ and EPA for nearly two years, it's fucking criminal!! Or should be, at any rate.

Environmental crime of the worst order, and a whole city of children impacted for life.




On another note, wesw has a great point - there are plenty of good jobs to be had rebuilding our aging and in many cases dangerously deficient infrastructure, and we should put some money into that by taxing corporations and the 1% at a reasonable rate like we did before Reagan, etc.

[rubato]

Most newer water mains are composed of "ductile iron" which has a lining in itself .Older watermains could be composed of most anything that would stand the pressure (some were even made of wood ) various types of brass ,contain varying amounts of lead ,depending on the alloy ,the NSF has pretty much banned lead in contact with drinking water nowadays .Even plastics can leach certain amounts of heavy metals under unusual conditions ,such as cadmium I believe ,which was used as a "plasticizer " in some types of plastics ,some of these metals are very toxic even in very small quantities.

If cadmium is in plastic it is not a plasticizer. BPA (bisphenol A) was used as a plasticizer and it is known to leach out under certain conditions perhaps that is what you are thinking of?




Cadmium might have been used as a stabilizer, but I don't think recently.


yrs,
rubato

[kmccune]

Could have been , processes change over the years and not always for the better .Some of this plastic junk now ,while not biodegradable ,just as well should be classed as such and what gets me is that quality plastic materials exist (I pay attention in old dumps as to what hangs around and has life remaining )some of these new plastics wont last a year in the sun or being stressed with temperature variance . Thanks Rubato ,you obviously have some background in organic chemistry or such (later Guys ,have to plow snow tomorrow )

[Long Run]

As expected, U.S. taxpayers bailing out a local stupid mistake. $85 million and counting. With a $1 billion + price tag to replace the city's water pipes, this is just a good faith deposit.

[wesw]

so what is a better solution?

let them drink lead?

die of thirst?

just shoot the poor black bastards?

[wesw]

bravo to Rachel Maddow for her work on this story. (yes it hurt)

[Guinevere]

EPA Regional Administrator resigned yesterday. I have been swamped with not enough time to sort through all the facts and allegations here, but plan on reading more this weekend.

Agree with you wes -- there is no alternative but to fix the situation and it is the kind of emergency we use federal funds for. If for flooding and blizzards and storms, why not the most important thing in the world to humans -- water.

[Jarlaxle]

Maybe it's time to do the obvious: condemn and bulldoze the city of Flint.

[Guinevere]

Which will still require compensation, probably far more than the pipe replacement. Not to mention all sorts of additional costs and concerns related to demolition.

And then of course if you ever want to make that land productive again there is probably a ton of remedial work to do.

[rubato]

This is an unrelievedly awful story. Lead poisoning, especially of a child, is forever. An injury which can never be fixed. Once the high lead levels were known it should have been treated as an immediate and critical emergency.

The most galling thing is that GOP racists will blame the failed and unfulfilled lives of these people on their 'bad choices" like they have been doing to lead-poisoned urban populations for decades.

There is no way to fix this, ever. We cannot go back and give them the lives they could have had instead. It is sickening.




yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

The most galling thing is that GOP racists will blame the failed and unfulfilled lives of these people on their 'bad choices" like they have been doing to lead-poisoned urban populations for decades.

[Long Run]

Agree with you wes -- there is no alternative but to fix the situation and it is the kind of emergency we use federal funds for. If for flooding and blizzards and storms, why not the most important thing in the world to humans -- water.

Obviously, there has to be a bailout, but this is different than the typical natural hazards -- this was a disaster created solely by human idiocy and then treachery. And we know who the malfeasants were: some should be fired, some should be jailed.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Agree with you wes -- there is no alternative but to fix the situation and it is the kind of emergency we use federal funds for. If for flooding and blizzards and storms, why not the most important thing in the world to humans -- water.

Obviously, there has to be a bailout, but this is different than the typical natural hazards -- this was a disaster created solely by human idiocy and then treachery. And we know who the malfeasants were: some should be fired, some should be jailed.

True, dat.

[Lord Jim]

I also agree, regarding the punishment of those responsible, but unfotunately that's not going to produce the money necessary to do what has to be done...

[Long Run]

The composition of the bailout can be heavy on loans to be repaid by ratepayers and Michigan, with the actual grant money being limited to Michigan's relative share of whatever federal "infrastructure" improvement program is underway.

[rubato]

http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/inde ... oning.html

Race, racism and lead poisoning: Toxic Neglect
LEAD_PROMO3.jpg
A long history of discrimination in housing laws and racial segregation has concentrated the poorest minority families in the worst housing in the city. The same neighborhoods have the highest lead poisoning rates due to deteriorating lead-based paint in homes, poor code enforcement, and proximity to industrial areas and highways. (Andrea Levy, The Plain Dealer)
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Rachel Dissell, Brie Zeltner, The Plain Dealer By Rachel Dissell, Brie Zeltner, The Plain Dealer
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on October 22, 2015 at 12:00 PM, updated October 22, 2015 at 12:17 PM
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Toxic Neglect

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CLEVELAND, Ohio—Kim Foreman has watched the effects of lead poisoning on Cleveland children for over 17 years. She's seen more than one generation of a single family poisoned by the same homes.

She knows which pockets of the city have been hardest hit, and she knows why.

A long history of discrimination and racial segregation has concentrated the poorest minority families in the worst housing in the city, she says. As a result, they're living in mostly aging, badly maintained rental units.

"This is about equity and disparities," says Foreman, executive director of Environmental Health Watch, a nonprofit that works with city and county officials to address lead and other environmental health hazards in Cleveland. "It's not about emotion. This is our history."

From 1999 to 2004, black children nationally were 1.6 times more likely to test positive for lead in their blood than were white children, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Black children were nearly three times more likely to have highly elevated blood-lead levels. In Cuyahoga County, it's neighborhoods with majority black populations that have the highest rates of lead poisoning.

It's a history many people would prefer to ignore, but Foreman is past caring about that.

"That's the real story," she says. "That's what we need to talk about." ... "

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

I'm missing the part in there where you're proving that "racist Republicans" are blaming the people of Flint's "bad choices" as being responsible for the poisoning of their water supply...

Perhaps I skimmed through it too quickly...

[oldr_n_wsr]

Thi was a big case of unintended consequences. Trying to save some money in the budget (what taxpayer doesn't want their representatives to save them money) where an interim solution caused unforseen damage. Then there was the cover up/slight of hand.....
I agree, we fix up towns/villages/cities after a natural disaster, give the money to fix this. Or get the already in progress new pipes done quicker in parallel with some heavy duty filtration system.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I'm missing the part in there where you're proving that "racist Republicans" are blaming the people of Flint's "bad choices" as being responsible for the poisoning of their water supply...

Perhaps I skimmed through it too quickly...

SInce he's quoting the Plain Dealer, how about looking at mayors of Cleveland? (You missed the evil repubs, LJ). Here are the last 11; they are:

Frank J. Lausche........1942–1945.....Democrat
Thomas A. Burke........1946–1953.....Democrat
Anthony J Celebrezze. 1954–1961.....Democrat
Ralph S. Locher..........1962–1967.....Democrat
Carl B. Stokes...........1968–1971.....Democrat......black
Ralph J. Perk............1972–1977.....Republican
Dennis J. Kucinich......1977–1979.....Democrat
George V. Voinovich....1980–1989.....Republican
Michael R. White........1990–2001.....Democrat.....black
Jane L. Campbell.......2002–2006..... Democrat.....woman
Frank G. Jackson........2006–Present..Democrat.....black

Cleveland Council
Present: (16) Democrats; (1) Green, (0) Republicans

Except for the Green, that's pretty much Cleveland City Council for the past umpty ump years

There are 3 republicans and 8 democrats on the Cuyahoga County Council... also a pattern from the past