trump is serious!!!!!
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Tell me Gwen's IRL first name and I can tell you with near certainty if they've ended up together.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
I can't recall it...
I spoke with her on the phone a number of times too, and Steve as well before he went full fucktard....
I think Guin may know it; I believe she spoke with her too...
I spoke with her on the phone a number of times too, and Steve as well before he went full fucktard....
I think Guin may know it; I believe she spoke with her too...
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Let's not go there, that is starting to sound a bit stalkerish. Whatever they are doing, they are living the life they created for themselves, and I for one am glad it will never cross paths with mine again, even virtually.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
I'm not encouraging stalking, but Jim's link to the Rosetta website has her listed as Gwen Kerr.
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Editec posted on FB as recently as 4 hours ago. I vaguely recall all kinds of stuff flying backwards and forwards at CSB but quite frankly I'm not sure I care enough to get too bothered about on-line dreck. Perhaps it was because I didn't feel attacked or am just too uninformed to catch all the nuances. I supplied several books to Gwen and Edi.
There are many posters that I miss, whether I "liked" them or not.
There are many posters that I miss, whether I "liked" them or not.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
On reflection, I think Scooter's probably right...
I just thought it was odd that after having been so immersed in that BBS that he would suddenly just quit posting there...
As I said for a long time editec and I had a good relationship (I also spoke with his wife a couple of times; she seemed like a very nice person) his son was either three or four years older than Tati, and after she was born we would talk about our kids...
I don't bear him any ongoing ill will (unlike Gwen, who would have to own up to what she was did and apologize for it before she'd get any forgiveness from me. The last I saw from her was few years ago at CSB II, where she was absolutely unrepentant and saying that the only "mistake" she made was being too good a person, and not being dictatorial enough...
) and my only purpose in doing the search was because I was concerned something seriously bad might have happened to him, (lord knows we've lost more than enough of our current and former compadres recently... 
)
I was glad to discover that he is apparently doing fine, and that's really all I wanted to know...
My negative feelings about Gwen may be stronger than most people here, because I defended her and stood up for her for so long, even as the chorus of criticism got louder and louder, and I began to feel like I was compromising my credibility...
Because of this, I REALLY was furious with her when she pulled that stunt over the editing time limit. I felt like she had pulled the rug out from under me, and made me look like a complete idiot for having defended her for so long...
Trust me when I tell you that I'm perfectly capable of making myself look like a complete idiot without any assistance from anyone else...
It really pisses me off when somebody decides to help me...
I just thought it was odd that after having been so immersed in that BBS that he would suddenly just quit posting there...
As I said for a long time editec and I had a good relationship (I also spoke with his wife a couple of times; she seemed like a very nice person) his son was either three or four years older than Tati, and after she was born we would talk about our kids...
I don't bear him any ongoing ill will (unlike Gwen, who would have to own up to what she was did and apologize for it before she'd get any forgiveness from me. The last I saw from her was few years ago at CSB II, where she was absolutely unrepentant and saying that the only "mistake" she made was being too good a person, and not being dictatorial enough...
) and my only purpose in doing the search was because I was concerned something seriously bad might have happened to him, (lord knows we've lost more than enough of our current and former compadres recently... )I was glad to discover that he is apparently doing fine, and that's really all I wanted to know...
My negative feelings about Gwen may be stronger than most people here, because I defended her and stood up for her for so long, even as the chorus of criticism got louder and louder, and I began to feel like I was compromising my credibility...
Because of this, I REALLY was furious with her when she pulled that stunt over the editing time limit. I felt like she had pulled the rug out from under me, and made me look like a complete idiot for having defended her for so long...
Trust me when I tell you that I'm perfectly capable of making myself look like a complete idiot without any assistance from anyone else...
It really pisses me off when somebody decides to help me...
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Jim--I recall that editing thing, and I really don't recall you being as angry as you seem now; has the passage of time only made it worse?
TRUMP IS SERIOUS!!!!!
Damn, LJ, is it possible that you "suffer" from hyperthymesia? The minutiae that you so easily recall about others is incredible. I can hardly remember who and why I was pissed off at yesterday yet alone decades ago.
I wonder what my dossier, stored in your bio-chipped cranium memory banks, would say about me? It may not be stalking but it sure is creepy. A gift or a curse?
I wonder what my dossier, stored in your bio-chipped cranium memory banks, would say about me? It may not be stalking but it sure is creepy. A gift or a curse?
Last edited by RayThom on Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
No Jims memory is correct though he may have expressed his feelings more artfully at the time.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Big RR, I was extremely pissed...As I recall I was pretty relentless about it...I wanted her either out as Admin or at the very least have a second co-admin be involved...I was just getting ready to start a poll on that, (which obviously she would have ignored, but at least she would know just how badly confidence in her had deteriorated) when I threw my back out and was in bed for two weeks...
After that, I just said the hell with it, and never came back to post on the CSB until Gar had removed her as admin. I decided I was so pissed I that I didn't want anything to do with it as long as she was running it...
For me, as I said repeatedly at the time the editing time limit was only incidental. The underlying and far more serious issue was her flagrant and arrogant refusal to go along with the will of the overwhelming number of board members, on an issue that clearly represented no basic threat to the board itself. (This was clear from the fact that the unlimited editing had been in place for years with nobody bitching...)
After something so clear and so blatant it became impossible to any longer rationalize or defend her behavior; she was a dictator who was running the board to suit herself and her friends, just as many others had been saying. There were no ifs ands or buts about it. After she did this the evidence was so stark that there was no rational way to deny it.
I was also angry at the sneaky and dishonest way she had dealt with me about this...
I had to eat a lot of crow and listen to a lot of "I told you sos"....(Believe it or not those are not exactly two of my most favorite pastimes...)
To refresh your memory, here's how this whole thing went down:
After months of stalling and bullshit excuse making, Gwen had finally relented and agreed to making some changes that would make it easier for legitimate registrations for new members to take place. (And even then, the only reason she finally gave in was because a friend of one of her buddies, Kiko, couldn't get registered...)
In the process of doing the upgrade to accomplish this, somehow the editing time limit defaulted to 30 minutes, (actually it may have even been 20 minutes)
When I brought this to her attention, her first response to me was along the lines of "I know, I'm going to fix it, there are a lot of bugs that I'm having to fix from the upgrade, I just haven't had time to do it yet."
That seemed like a perfectly reasonable response but after a few more days went by without it getting fixed, I asked again, and this time she said that "we will have to have a discussion about it"...
So then I started a thread and a poll with three options, Keep the 20 minute time limit, go back to unlimited editing, or have a 48 hour limit...
This pissed me off so much that I remember to this day exactly what the vote was:
5 votes for the 20 minute limit, 13 votes for unlimited and 14 votes for 48 hours...
So her position had been rejected by a vote of 27-5, and throughout the discussion though it was clear that now she was on the side of the 20 minute limit, (after initially viewing it as just a glitch that needed to be fixed) she gave no indication whatsoever that if the vote didn't go the way she wanted that she would simply ignore the results. The clear expectation of everyone who participated in the vote (even those few who voted in favor of the 20 minute limit) was that the majority view would prevail...
You don't have to be Solomon to figure out what a fair solution would have been in light of that vote. The board was pretty evenly split between 48 hours and unlimited. The logical thing to do would have been to set it somewhere between those two...Maybe 72 hours, maybe a week....
And as Don Barzini said in The Godfather, "there will be the peace"...
Then after the vote she announced that she was going to keep the 20 minute limit anyway. She gave a whole series of bullshit intelligence-insulting rationalizations and excuses (even though she came to the point where she did a lot of lying, Gwen was really a terrible liar...either that or she had so little regard for whether you believed her or not that she couldn't be bothered to even try to come up with something plausible) as I and others took her heavily to task.
At one point she even tried to frame the argument as how she wasn't obligated to make changes (this actually wasn't even a change; it was just restoring what had already been in place for years.) just to please one person, (meaning me)
This was of course, complete unadulterated horseshit. It wasn't her versus me it was her versus the overwhelming majority of the board. It was also during these exchanges that she started hinting around that she might just pull the plug on the place without notice. (Which of course is what served as the final impetus for the creation of this board...)
I became (and remain) convinced that there were 2 principal real reasons for why she decided to impose her own dictatorial fiat.
The first is because editec wanted it. Editec had been accusing some posters of saying things they hadn't said, and when he couldn't find the non-existent quotes doing a search, rather than reach the obvious and logical conclusion, "Gee, I guess my mental health medication combined with many years of heavy daily pot smoking, must have affected my memory", he jumped to the ridiculous conclusion that the only reason he couldn't find the quotes, (which also no else could ever recall having seen) must have been fiendishly deleted in order to prevent him from finding them.
I have absolutely no doubt, that somewhere between, "I'm going to fix it, there are a lot of bugs that I'm having to fix from the upgrade, I just haven't had time to do it yet." and "we will have to have a discussion about it" editec leaned on her not to change it back, and I'm sure he also leaned on her to give a big hearty "FUCK YOU" to the entire board membership when the position he wanted was overwhelmingly rejected...
The other reason is just pure arrogant hubris. She was clearly irritated that she had finally been dragged kicking and screaming into doing something she did not want to do (making it easier for new people to register) and she certainly didn't want anyone to get the idea that going along with what a clear majority of the board wanted was going to become any sort of a habit for her.
Overruling what an overwhelming majority of board members wanted was a way for her to give everybody who had pressured her to change the registration system a swift kick in the teeth and remind them of just who "the boss" was....
The bottom line is that while she certainly had the good technical skills needed, she was just fundamentally unsuited by temperament and judgement to the role of being Admin to a board with a very diverse membership for a long period of time. As I said before, as time went on, she began to see the board as being "hers" and herself as the "owner" (which obviously she was not.)
And on top of this, she could not keep her personal relationships separate from her board responsibilities. And this problem was compounded for her by the fact that the two posters she had this relationship with had come to be on the outs with just about everyone else on the board...
All of this tended to make her unnecessarily defensive, and blundered accordingly. She had a huge reservoir of good will, and she threw it away to keep her buddies happy, because that was the top priority for her. If you act as if everyone is against you long enough, eventually they will be....
After that, I just said the hell with it, and never came back to post on the CSB until Gar had removed her as admin. I decided I was so pissed I that I didn't want anything to do with it as long as she was running it...
For me, as I said repeatedly at the time the editing time limit was only incidental. The underlying and far more serious issue was her flagrant and arrogant refusal to go along with the will of the overwhelming number of board members, on an issue that clearly represented no basic threat to the board itself. (This was clear from the fact that the unlimited editing had been in place for years with nobody bitching...)
After something so clear and so blatant it became impossible to any longer rationalize or defend her behavior; she was a dictator who was running the board to suit herself and her friends, just as many others had been saying. There were no ifs ands or buts about it. After she did this the evidence was so stark that there was no rational way to deny it.
I was also angry at the sneaky and dishonest way she had dealt with me about this...
I had to eat a lot of crow and listen to a lot of "I told you sos"....(Believe it or not those are not exactly two of my most favorite pastimes...)
To refresh your memory, here's how this whole thing went down:
After months of stalling and bullshit excuse making, Gwen had finally relented and agreed to making some changes that would make it easier for legitimate registrations for new members to take place. (And even then, the only reason she finally gave in was because a friend of one of her buddies, Kiko, couldn't get registered...)
In the process of doing the upgrade to accomplish this, somehow the editing time limit defaulted to 30 minutes, (actually it may have even been 20 minutes)
When I brought this to her attention, her first response to me was along the lines of "I know, I'm going to fix it, there are a lot of bugs that I'm having to fix from the upgrade, I just haven't had time to do it yet."
That seemed like a perfectly reasonable response but after a few more days went by without it getting fixed, I asked again, and this time she said that "we will have to have a discussion about it"...
So then I started a thread and a poll with three options, Keep the 20 minute time limit, go back to unlimited editing, or have a 48 hour limit...
This pissed me off so much that I remember to this day exactly what the vote was:
5 votes for the 20 minute limit, 13 votes for unlimited and 14 votes for 48 hours...
So her position had been rejected by a vote of 27-5, and throughout the discussion though it was clear that now she was on the side of the 20 minute limit, (after initially viewing it as just a glitch that needed to be fixed) she gave no indication whatsoever that if the vote didn't go the way she wanted that she would simply ignore the results. The clear expectation of everyone who participated in the vote (even those few who voted in favor of the 20 minute limit) was that the majority view would prevail...
You don't have to be Solomon to figure out what a fair solution would have been in light of that vote. The board was pretty evenly split between 48 hours and unlimited. The logical thing to do would have been to set it somewhere between those two...Maybe 72 hours, maybe a week....
And as Don Barzini said in The Godfather, "there will be the peace"...
Then after the vote she announced that she was going to keep the 20 minute limit anyway. She gave a whole series of bullshit intelligence-insulting rationalizations and excuses (even though she came to the point where she did a lot of lying, Gwen was really a terrible liar...either that or she had so little regard for whether you believed her or not that she couldn't be bothered to even try to come up with something plausible) as I and others took her heavily to task.
At one point she even tried to frame the argument as how she wasn't obligated to make changes (this actually wasn't even a change; it was just restoring what had already been in place for years.) just to please one person, (meaning me)
This was of course, complete unadulterated horseshit. It wasn't her versus me it was her versus the overwhelming majority of the board. It was also during these exchanges that she started hinting around that she might just pull the plug on the place without notice. (Which of course is what served as the final impetus for the creation of this board...)
I became (and remain) convinced that there were 2 principal real reasons for why she decided to impose her own dictatorial fiat.
The first is because editec wanted it. Editec had been accusing some posters of saying things they hadn't said, and when he couldn't find the non-existent quotes doing a search, rather than reach the obvious and logical conclusion, "Gee, I guess my mental health medication combined with many years of heavy daily pot smoking, must have affected my memory", he jumped to the ridiculous conclusion that the only reason he couldn't find the quotes, (which also no else could ever recall having seen) must have been fiendishly deleted in order to prevent him from finding them.
I have absolutely no doubt, that somewhere between, "I'm going to fix it, there are a lot of bugs that I'm having to fix from the upgrade, I just haven't had time to do it yet." and "we will have to have a discussion about it" editec leaned on her not to change it back, and I'm sure he also leaned on her to give a big hearty "FUCK YOU" to the entire board membership when the position he wanted was overwhelmingly rejected...
The other reason is just pure arrogant hubris. She was clearly irritated that she had finally been dragged kicking and screaming into doing something she did not want to do (making it easier for new people to register) and she certainly didn't want anyone to get the idea that going along with what a clear majority of the board wanted was going to become any sort of a habit for her.
Overruling what an overwhelming majority of board members wanted was a way for her to give everybody who had pressured her to change the registration system a swift kick in the teeth and remind them of just who "the boss" was....
The bottom line is that while she certainly had the good technical skills needed, she was just fundamentally unsuited by temperament and judgement to the role of being Admin to a board with a very diverse membership for a long period of time. As I said before, as time went on, she began to see the board as being "hers" and herself as the "owner" (which obviously she was not.)
And on top of this, she could not keep her personal relationships separate from her board responsibilities. And this problem was compounded for her by the fact that the two posters she had this relationship with had come to be on the outs with just about everyone else on the board...
All of this tended to make her unnecessarily defensive, and blundered accordingly. She had a huge reservoir of good will, and she threw it away to keep her buddies happy, because that was the top priority for her. If you act as if everyone is against you long enough, eventually they will be....
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sat Apr 23, 2016 12:24 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
It's both Ray...A gift or a curse?
Yes it's true that I do have an unusually good memory, and many times that can come in handy...it's certainly been useful in building good relationships with clients...
However it can also give the impression to someone that I must really think a lot about them since I remember so many details regarding them...
But because it just comes naturally to me and requires no special effort, and because I remember a lot of detail about everything, they needn't feel so flattered...
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Damn!! Now I'm getting mad at Gwenhosebar all over again.
Where is she?
Let me at her!
Where is she?
Let me at her!
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Jim--thanks for the summary; it's becoming a bit clearer now. I do recall you posting about her disregard of the wishes of the board members, but perhaps the tone of your posting made me think you didn't like it, but you weren't pissed (you're always the gentleman 
). I recall not liking the 20 minutes as well, but there were a lot of other things going on at the time (which I just put out of my head and do not recall with any real detail)b but eventually the board disintegrated into one where people just bitched about each other and didn't really address the issues we should have been discussing 9at least in my opinion) which led me to leaving.
). I recall not liking the 20 minutes as well, but there were a lot of other things going on at the time (which I just put out of my head and do not recall with any real detail)b but eventually the board disintegrated into one where people just bitched about each other and didn't really address the issues we should have been discussing 9at least in my opinion) which led me to leaving.Re: trump is serious!!!!!
At first, I tried to be diplomatic in an effort get her come to her senses and do the right thing...(I contained my anger because I wanted to try to be persuasive...)I do recall you posting about her disregard of the wishes of the board members, but perhaps the tone of your posting made me think you didn't like it, but you weren't pissed
As it became increasingly apparent that wasn't going to happen, and after she started giving laughably ridiculous rationalizations (and particularly after she tried to claim that this was about me rather than the overwhelming vote of the membership, and after she started making threats) my "tone" began to change...
I really laid into her when I returned to posting on the CSB after Gar shit-canned her as admin, and I also reamed her a new one at the CSB II...
(I believe you can still see those exchanges)And as I said, up to the very end, she remained in complete clueless denial about her central bungling role in tanking the place...
Whatever one thinks an admin should do, I think you could get pretty much unanimous agreement that the one thing they should absolutely avoid doing, is screwing up so badly, and alienating so many people, that a whole new competing board gets created...
But if you read what she said in retrospect at CSB II, it's clear that she thought her only mistake was not alienating more people more quickly...
Last edited by Lord Jim on Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bicycle Bill
- Posts: 9742
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:10 pm
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Interesting, how the past two pages of this thread — which was ostensibly about The Hairpiece That Walks Like A Man — has been all about the bullshit that happened on a now-defunct BBS a long time ago.
Nice hijack, folks!
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Anything but Trump is an big improvement! 
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
I've gotten so sick of hearing about the Trump-thing (especially since the extremely depressing NY primary) that instead of having one of the US cable news stations on in the background, most of the time I've had the BBC World News cable station on...
More international news, less Trump...
Of course since yesterday there's been a break in the All-Trump All-The-Time format, while MSNBC, CNN and FOX have all practically gone wall-to-wall covering the death of Prince...
I'm sorry, but whether you liked the guy or didn't this level of coverage is waaaay excessive...especially even a day later...
The guy was a friggin' pop singer fercrisakes, not The Pope....
More international news, less Trump...
Of course since yesterday there's been a break in the All-Trump All-The-Time format, while MSNBC, CNN and FOX have all practically gone wall-to-wall covering the death of Prince...
I'm sorry, but whether you liked the guy or didn't this level of coverage is waaaay excessive...especially even a day later...
The guy was a friggin' pop singer fercrisakes, not The Pope....
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
And since we all seem to have finally figured out that Trump is serious, it seems only natural to start talking about a now-defunct BBS and the cause of its demise. Trump would learn something if he took the time to study the result of the obnoxious behavior of Gwenhobbler...
Re: trump is serious!!!!!
Have to agree on that Steve was so lovely at first, spoke with him on the phone a few times, exchanged e-mails, sent presents etc.Lord Jim wrote:
I remember shortly before the CSB went tits up going back and reading some of Steve's posts from earlier years.. (before his wife left him; I think that's really when his descent into madness began...of course whether he was starting to go crazy and that's why she left him, or if the bitterness of her leaving him drove him over the edge, we'll never know. If I recall he said she took up with a guy who made a lot more money than he did and that would go along way towards explaining the pathological hatred he developed towards people who were better off than him.)
What I read was pretty amazing; it didn't even seem like remotely the same person...
It's hard to remember this now, but in earlier years Steve was a pretty laid back and sweet tempered guy...
Far from the vicious shit flinger and four star whackjob that he ultimately became (to this day Steve continues to hold the record for the single most vile and disgusting accusation I have ever seen posted on a BBS...I'm not going to repeat it; I'm sure most people here know I'm referring to) Steve was actually kind of a board "peacemaker"...
He got along well with everybody, and I read some posts of his where he would jump into a spat between other posters to try and get them to resolve it. He was a regular voice for politely trying to get folks to calm down and be civil to one another...
Like I said not even remotely the same person....
It was sociopathic the way Edi , and to a lesser extent, Gwen, used Steve to foment their coup d'état of the CSB
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”