Brexit, the movie

[Gob]

[MajGenl.Meade]

Nixit

[Burning Petard]

Who is 'we' or 'us'? Should 'we' in York permit those other people outside of York determine the rules we should live by?

Very old question. What is my tribe? What is the social contract and how is it modified? In the world of today, I, an individual human being living in Bear Delaware, USA certainly want some say in who is allowed to board a plane in Ankara and get off the plane in Wilmington Delaware. I want to have my expert inspecting those bananas that are unloaded from the cargo vessels in Wilmington Delaware. But that means I should expect some reciprocity and limits on my freedoms by others around the world as well.

snailgate

later footnote. More bananas are unloaded in the Port of Wilmington than any other port in North America.

[rubato]

Stop whining, stop whinging and cwying and get the fuck out.


Go


Go go go.


It will only be beneficial for everyone else to see how stupid that decision is even for a middle-rank country (not tops like Germany). It will be a valuable learning experience and even better that you brought it on yourselves.


Get the fuck out and stop crying like goddamn babies about it. Go. Piss ... Off.


You're like some insufferable 10-year old brat who keep threatening to run away from home.


yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

LOL!! Aspergers boy seems to fail, as he always does, to notice that the UK, (being a civilised country,) is having a referendum on the matter on the 23rd of June, and that there are two sides to the debate.

Really, rubato's input to debate never rises above us having a tantrumy 5 year old running about Plan B with crayons.

[Lord Jim]

rubato's input to debate never rises above us having a tantrumy 5 year old running about Plan B with crayons.

Crayons would be an improvement...

Unfortunately, rube doesn't know shit from Crayola...

[TPFKA@W]

It's his wife's fault. I am quite sure she whacks him in the balls regularly.

[rubato]

One fundamental problem for Britain (which I raised elsewhere but none has yet been intelligent enough to discuss it) is that if they leave they will still have to follow EU rules about product safety, labeling, shipping, travel, airline safety &c but they will have no input, at all, anymore. The US and EU will dictate and you will say "Yes Sir" and hop to, or your businesses will wither.

An interesting light on this process comes from the consideration that the world is both flying apart and coming together at the same time. It is a strange thing. International trade, international shipping, international use of resources (fishing), international pollution of the air and oceans, international terrorism, all require that we cooperate and communicate more closely and more intimately and with less individual autonomy than ever before, it cannot be helped. And at the same time we have political units flying apart over questions of nationalist autonomy. I think I'll start a new thread about it since the jackasses have already polluted this one.

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

the jackasses have already polluted this one.

LMAO!

It takes a rare sort of fellow who can post this:

Stop whining, stop whinging and cwying and get the fuck out.

Go

Go go go.

It will only be beneficial for everyone else to see how stupid that decision is even for a middle-rank country (not tops like Germany). It will be a valuable learning experience and even better that you brought it on yourselves.

Get the fuck out and stop crying like goddamn babies about it. Go. Piss ... Off.

You're like some insufferable 10-year old brat who keep threatening to run away from home.


yrs,
rubato

And then complain about "jackasses"...

You're channeling your inner Trump yet again rube...

I think I'll start a new thread about it

Excellent, I can hardly wait...

Will this one include facts brought from reputable sources backing up your argument, or will it be your usual hodge podge of dodgy sources, data points misleadingly taken out of context, sources that don't actually back up your claims, and stuff you just yanked completely out of your ass?

(He asked, already knowing the answer... )

[Gob]

One fundamental problem for Britain (which I raised elsewhere but none has yet been intelligent enough to discuss it) is that if they leave they will still have to follow EU rules about product safety, labeling, shipping, travel, airline safety &c but they will have no input, at all, anymore. The US and EU will dictate and you will say "Yes Sir" and hop to, or your businesses will wither.

Totally wrong, buut do carry on...

An interesting light on this process comes from the consideration that the world is both flying apart and coming together at the same time. It is a strange thing. International trade, international shipping, international use of resources (fishing), international pollution of the air and oceans, international terrorism, all require that we cooperate and communicate more closely and more intimately and with less individual autonomy than ever before, it cannot be helped. And at the same time we have political units flying apart over questions of nationalist autonomy. I think I'll start a new thread about it since the jackasses have already polluted this one.

yrs,
rubato

LOL! And which Aspergerish Jackass started that?

[MajGenl.Meade]

David Mitchell in the Grauniad

Britain’s future in Europe has not really been addressed by the Tories and instead this bunch of aspiring leaders who can’t agree on this vital issue of leadership have brushed it aside, saying: “We’ll hold a referendum”; “We’ll let you decide”; “Let us be captain of the ship but we’ll negotiate the most lethal reefs by holding a steering vote among the passengers.” I don’t think a political party has any business existing if it can’t agree a policy on this.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ?CMP=fb_gu

(Thanks, Sam)

[Lord Jim]

Most of the polls I've seen lately have shown that the massive fear mongering campaign being waged by the leadership of both major parties was succeeding and the Remain support seemed to be building a 10-15 point lead, so perhaps this one is an outlier. (Or maybe the British people are beginning to refuse to be scared out of reclaiming their national sovereignty)

UK voters leaning towards Brexit, Guardian poll reveals

Phone and online survey shows a 52-48 split in favour of leaving the EU as referendum campaign gathers steam

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/21f32072 ... 57dc976137

Public opinion has shifted towards the UK leaving the EU, two Guardian/ICM polls suggest as the referendum campaign picks up pace – with voters split 52% -48% in favour of Brexit, whether surveyed online or by phone.

Previous polls have tended to show voters surveyed online to be more in favour of Britain leaving the EU. But in the latest ICM research, carried out for the Guardian, both methodologies yielded the same result – a majority in favour of leaving.

In the phone poll of more than 1,000 adults, 45% said they favoured leaving the EU, and 42% remaining, with 13% saying they did not know. Once the “don’t knows” were excluded, that left 52% in favour of Brexit, against 48% for remain.

Using online polling, 47% said they would like to leave and 44% remain, with 9% saying they were undecided. Excluding the latter, the result was the same as the phone method – 52-48 in favour of leaving.

The result using the online method is almost unchanged, but the phone polling appears to be picking up a shift towards leaving the EU, despite a slew of warnings from the most senior members of the government about the economic risks of doing so.

When ICM carried out a poll for the Guardian in mid-May, remain had a 10 percentage point lead among those polled by phone, on 55% to 45%. The online method produced the same result as the latest one: 52% for leave compared with 48% for remain.

This latest result is likely to alarm the Stronger In Europe campaign, which had previously taken comfort from the tendency for phone polls to deliver a pro-remain verdict.

Boon said the polling suggested there would be a healthy turnout in the referendum. Asked how likely they were to vote on 23 June, more than 60% of respondents on both methods gave a score of 10 out of 10, which he said pointed to a turnout of 60-62%.

As well as checking voters’ intentions for the referendum, ICM asked which party they would vote for. The findings were almost unchanged compared with mid-May, with the phone poll showing the Conservatives on 36%, and Labour down 2 percentage points at 32.

Support for Ukip appeared to have picked up, perhaps aided by the prominence of the party’s leader, Nigel Farage, during the referendum campaign and the focus on immigration in the debate. The party scored 15% in the phone poll, up 2 percentage points from last time.

Gisela Stuart, the chair of Vote Leave and a Labour MP, told the Guardian recently that the party’s backing for remaining in the EU was “a recruiting agent for Ukip”.

Support for Brexit is split along class and geographical lines, according to ICM. Among skilled manual workers, known by pollsters as C2s, support for Brexit is running as high as 62%. Scotland is for remain, while voters in England and Wales would back Brexit.

“Our poll rather unhinges a few accepted orthodoxies,” said ICM’s director, Martin Boon. “It is only one poll but, in a rather unexpected reverse of polling assumptions so far, both our phone poll and our online poll are consistent on both vote intentions and on the EU referendum.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ll-reveals


ETA:

Apparently the Frogs would be happy to bid the UK adieu:

Poll: Majority Of French People Back Brexit

A majority of French people want the United Kingdom to vote for Brexit and leave the European Union.

That’s according to a poll in the French newspaper Le Figaro. The online poll of more than 22,000 people found 68 percent thought the Brits should vote for Brexit on June 23.

Despite a flurry of intervention from world leaders, including President Barack Obama, as well as a host financial institutions warning Britain about the dire consequences of Brexit, the polls have shifted toward the “Leave” side.

Two of the last three opinion polls put the pro-Brexit side ahead by two percentage points. A YouGov poll published Thursday showed both sides neck and neck.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/02/poll- ... z4AXRlkR00

[Lord Jim]

And it appears the idea of getting out of the EU has growing appeal all over Europe:

Almost Half Of Europeans Want Every Country To Vote On Leaving EU

Almost half of Europeans, 45 percent, want their respective countries to hold exit referendums on whether or not they should stay in the European Union.

An Ipsos-MORI poll released Monday surveyed 6,000 Europeans from Belgium, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Poland, Spain and Sweden on their feelings about the current state of the EU. The United Kingdom will be the first to hold a referendum when it votes on “Brexit” June 23.

One third of European voters would vote to leave the EU if their country held a referendum today, the poll shows. Pro-EU leaders fear the number would grow and start a domino effect if Brexit becomes reality.

“The Italians in particular hope to have their own opportunity to go to the polls on their EU membership — which lends a sense that even if the vote does stick with the status quo in June, it will not be the end of the EU’s woes,” Bobby Duffy, managing director of social research as Ipsos-MORI told the Financial Times.

Support to leave the EU is above 40 percent in Italy, France and Sweden, which suggests that a referendum would make for a close call. Marine Le Pen, leader of French nationalist party the National Front, has already called for every country to hold their own referendums.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/09/almos ... z4AXTKYLAj

[rubato]

One fundamental problem for Britain (which I raised elsewhere but none has yet been intelligent enough to discuss it) is that if they leave they will still have to follow EU rules about product safety, labeling, shipping, travel, airline safety &c but they will have no input, at all, anymore. The US and EU will dictate and you will say "Yes Sir" and hop to, or your businesses will wither.

Totally wrong, buut do carry on...
... " ?

So you imagine that the EU will stop regulating commerce when you leave? Or that they will still allow you to participate in setting regulations even though you have left? Which is it?


Moron. You really are childish.


yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

So you imagine that the EU will stop regulating commerce when you leave? Or that they will still allow you to participate in setting regulations even though you have left? Which is it?


Moron. You really are childish.


yrs,
rubato

\

Back to the same old shit from Aspergers boy then.


No rubato I do not mean that at all. You do know that trade between countries is entirely possible without membership of the same club, and that regulation is not fixed, but flexible and renewable?

So the UK could enter into agreement with the EU countries as an individual nation, you know like the US does with just about every other nation?

Your world view is severely limited by your lack of worldly experience.

[Lord Jim]

British voters leaning Leave as Brexit referendum approaches, polls suggest

The Leave campaign has made significant gains over Remain in past few weeks

After months of a "Brexit" looking like a long shot, the United Kingdom might be heading towards that option as the referendum on the country's membership in the European Union finally approaches.

This according to a slew of recent polls. But the margin between the two options on the June 23 referendum ballot — to "remain" a member of the EU or to "leave" it — is very close, and past experience in favour of the status quo suggests the betting odds might still be in favour of a vote to stay.[I disagree. This isn't like a general election. It seems to me that a close margin in the polls would favor Leave, since those voters are likely to feel more impassioned.]

The referendum is the fulfillment of a promise made by Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron in early 2013, when he pledged to hold a vote on the future of Britain's EU membership if his party was re-elected in the 2015 general election. It was a move designed to head-off divisions within his own party between Eurosceptics and those, like Cameron, who believe the United Kingdom's place is within the EU.

When Cameron announced the day of the referendum in February, polls were showing modest but consistent support for the Remain camp, as they had for some time. But the campaign has begun to lean towards the Leave side in recent weeks.

Support for Remain averaged between 43 and 45 per cent in published national polls conducted in the first four months of the year, maintaining an edge over Leave of between three and four points.

But the past 10 polls published in the U.K. have swung towards Leave, a campaign supported by, among other well-known Conservative MPs, Boris Johnson. The outspoken former mayor of London is one of the front-runners to replace Cameron, who has pledged to resign as prime minister before the 2020 general election.

Over those 10 polls, the Leave option has averaged 44 per cent against 43 per cent for Remain.

This is a big shift from where things stood last year. Throughout 2015, Remain was ahead very comfortably in the polls. In many surveys, the lead was in the double-digits. But fears related to immigration, which spiked after the refugee and migrant crisis that struck Europe last fall, have had a great impact on public opinion and against continued membership in the EU.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier ... -1.3618480

Judging by their performance up to now, with only two weeks to go till the vote and the polls this close, I fully expect Cameron and the rest of the Remain camp to ratchet up their Doomsday, "It will mean another Great Depression and World War III!!! " fear mongering campaign to a truly hair-on-fire pitch of apocalyptic predictions...

" It would be a disaster of biblical proportions! Old Testament, real wrath of God type stuff! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"

[Crackpot]

Gob, do the yahoos on your "side" of the brexit debate ever make you question your position?

[Gob]

Depends who you are referring to, there's idiots on both sides.

[rubato]

So you imagine that the EU will stop regulating commerce when you leave? Or that they will still allow you to participate in setting regulations even though you have left? Which is it?


Moron. You really are childish.


yrs,
rubato

\

Back to the same old shit from Aspergers boy then.


No rubato I do not mean that at all. You do know that trade between countries is entirely possible without membership of the same club, and that regulation is not fixed, but flexible and renewable?

So the UK could enter into agreement with the EU countries as an individual nation, you know like the US does with just about every other nation?

Your world view is severely limited by your lack of worldly experience.

We sell chemicals into several highly regulated economies; the EU, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China. And we are certainly aware of the different costs of compliance in each market. We also have to comply with IATA ( the International Air Transport Authority ) Dangerous goods regulations, for which I get recertified every two years. The EU will set the rules and you'll wag your tail and do what they say or go home. you are so whiny about the rules now when you have a say, you will like having no input at all even less.

Yrs,
Rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

But rubato, that's just the way it is in export/import to/from the USA and the ROW. Britain doesn't have a say in how non-Euro countries make their rules - and before the EU, Britain had no say in how they make their rules.

And before the EU, those foreigners didn't have a say in how Britain makes its rules either. I'd happily give up EURO input on how to run our own country in exchange for leaving them alone to run theirs.

You know what begins at Calais? It should begin 3 miles off the coast around oh.... Dover, Folkestone, St. Margaret's Bay and the Shakespeare Cliff.