Real American Politics

[Bicycle Bill]

Careful there, oldr. Many of the recent mass shootings have been committed with legally owned guns. I think maybe you meant to comment on the way the Executing Council of the NRA has been involved in (a) shooting down people en masse and (b) issuing instructions to those of their members with secret decoder rings to do likewise.

I'm sure that is what BB intended to highlight.

Since you don't seem to quite understand either what I was saying, I guess I'll have to spell it out for you.

The NRA response to the plethora of guns in the hands of criminals, psychos, and other assorted nutjobs and being used for violent and criminal acts — whether they were obtained legally or not — appears not so much to be trying to take the guns *OUT* of their hands, but to put as many more guns as possible out there in the hands of pretty much anybody who wants them through expanded concealed and open carry laws, loosening or elimination of required background checks, and the loosening or elimination of type restrictions.  See for example the sunset of the 'assault rifle' ban and the popularity of the 'Bushmaster' XM-15; and I'm sure that if somehow it became legal for anyone who wanted one to own a Tommy gun or other fully automatic weapon, no questions asked, no registrations required, no permits needed, Mr. Wayne LaPierre (Executive VP/CEO of the NRA) would not object to that in any way, shape, or form.

And as for your phrase "shooting down people en masse", well, we haven't quite gotten to the en masse level yet, but the NRA mantra that "the only way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person (or a whole bunch of good persons) with a gun" sure sounds to me like they are willing to "kill 'em all and let God sort it out".

-"BB"-

[Lord Jim]

We say Grace, and we say Maam....

That's actually Hank Jr. wrote and performed that song — but I'm glad you brought it up.

-"BB"-

Correct, not Charlie Daniels, my bad...

[oldr_n_wsr]

Sue U
I can't open those links as they are shut off to me here, I will have to look them at home.
But from the article you posted is says "Legally Obtained" it does not mention whether they were used by someone legally able to own/use/carrry a gun (convicted felon, non permit holder, etc)

May was a big month for deaths in chicago (the biggest to date?). I haven't seen a listing on whether the guns were legally bought and/or legally owned. I am guessing not for most of those used.

Mother Jones found 73 mass shootings since 1982.

73 mass shootings and 80% of the guns were legally "obtained". That's a little less than 59 legally "obtained" guns used. Out of the number of legal guns in the hands of legal gun owners, that is not even a blip on the radar.
And before it is said, I know any life taken is not a "blip on the radar" but it isn't a blip in the amount of guns that are out there legally owned.

because the actual facts don't fit in with your personal bias and preconceived notions.

And what would those be?

[MajGenl.Meade]

And as for your phrase "shooting down people en masse", well, we haven't quite gotten to the en masse level yet, but the NRA mantra that "the only way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person (or a whole bunch of good persons) with a gun" sure sounds to me like they are willing to "kill 'em all and let God sort it out".

Overall, I think the official NRA responses to mass shootings has been poor. I'm not sure what they could do constructively.

As an organization, their remit is not to solve the problem of disturbed individuals taking other people's lives. That is the job of government - all three branches of it. Their remit is not to make it harder for people (in general) to obtain firearms. Pointing the finger at the NRA is an old trick to avoid looking at the problem in its entirety.

Personally I think the NRA should not be tax-exempt and that would go a long way to removing their ability to influence politicians - but I blame the politicians for being influenced.

We are at the "en masse" level - in a group; all together. Mass shootings are those killing and wounding people in a group and it's why the word "mass" is used. Your sentence is also nonsense, other than the 'mantra', which certainly has been used more than once, although not as part of NRA policy. Individuals have certainly said that. One official NRA suggestion was to post armed police at all schools - utter rubbish too. The NRA has never sanctioned killing all persons and letting God 'sort 'em out'. However, killing all murderers is certainly a good idea. It does prevent them from killing again.

Perhaps you support the reintroduction of capital punishment as one measure to clean up the act?

[Bicycle Bill]

Capital punishment has been re-introduced in many states and I feel that it should be introduced in the rest of them as well.
And then once they have it, they need to use it.  Justice excessively delayed is justice denied.  The idea that it takes thirteen, fifteen, twenty, or more years to execute a person who has been convicted and sentenced by a jury of his peers while the condemned party's "defense team" plays through all the various legal angles and appeals is utter nonsense.

-"BB"-

[Econoline]

...unless it eventually turns out that the convicted defendant is exonerated by evidence not presented at trial. It happens. (Too often.)

[Big RR]

Or the convicted was not properly represented by counsel, something all too common in death penalty cases.

I am not a supporter of the death penalty, but I would think that, if we have one, anyone so sentenced should have been convicted properly and afforded every opportunity to present a full and proper defense.

[Bicycle Bill]

...unless it eventually turns out that the convicted defendant is exonerated by evidence not presented at trial. It happens. (Too often.)

Nobody ever guaranteed that life would be fair.  That includes the legal system, which is as fair as we can make it.

If there was evidence that exonerates a defendant but it was not brought out at trial, whose fault is that?  Yeah, I'm sure you'll follow up by citing the advances in DNA testing that are far superior now to what was available ten or fifteen years ago, or other forensic techniques that were strictly the stuff of science-fiction until recently.  So what do you propose?  That we execute nobody and just 'warehouse' them because someday a real-life Doc Brown *WILL* invent a time machine and a jury will be able go back in time to see for themselves what actually happened and who was responsible in order to guarantee that we get it right?

Sorry.  You've got people like Dylann Roof, who shot up the church in Charleston in the hopes of starting a 'race war'.  He has confessed to the crime and admitted his guilt.  Once he is tried, found guilty by his own admission, and sentenced, there is no reason he should live any longer than it takes to strap him to a gurney and hit the "start" button on the IV pump.

-"BB"-

[Big RR]

That we execute nobody and just 'warehouse' them because someday a real-life Doc Brown *WILL* invent a time machine and a jury will be able go back in time to see for themselves what actually happened and who was responsible in order to guarantee that we get it right?

No, but if we have a more accurate test now and the person facing the death penalty is alive, would you say we should not use this test because no one guaranteed that life would be fair? I have yet to hear an appeal that says to the appellate court "Let's hold off because a more accurate test might be developed in the future.

[wesw]

I m glad to see that jim still can appreciate good music....

....maybe there is hope for the old elitist yet.



eta- there was a time when the welsh thought that there were things worth dying for....

George washinton, Daniel boone and many American heroes were welsh.

the romans didn t even beat the welsh did they?

it took Vikings to beat the welsh, didn t it?

sure they were French Vikings, but still..., they were Vikings.

we would ve never taken Normandy in ww2 if the locals had pitched in with the germans...

....but I digress....

being a trumpanzee and Uneasy Rider are a fitting fit.

[wesw]

me and my Trump for president 2016 shirt....