Brexit suspended - gun violence in the UK

[Gob]

The conversations I am involved in and overhear are truly some of the most awful nationalistic nonsense. You have Farage and his Nazi Style poster campaign showing refugees, you have the official leave campaign telling us that millions of Turkish are going to arrive on our doorstep next week demanding jobs and healthcare. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to finding real arguments outside migration.

You cannot blame me for the company you keep!!

Mr Mair was at westminster magistrates this morning (probably wouldn't be in there if defence and police psychologists had thought his mental health was an issue) and when asked his name he replied his name was "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" He was also photographed participating in a Britain First "protest" in Dewsbury recently.

He would, there cannot be an assumption of insanity.

I don't think all Brexiters are racists, but I do think all racists are Brexiters.

I think you'd be wrong.

[Gob]

I know plenty of "loners with mental health issues" that would never dream of doing what he did.

.

I've met with and worked with far more than you I believe.

Not all "loners with mental health issues" cut their balls off and throw them away, But David did.

Not all "loners with mental health issues" stab their mothers to death, believing her to be infested by Satan, but John did.

Not all "loners with mental health issues" run their boss down, killing him, believing he was a doppelganger, but Marcus did.

That's just three from the last five years.

[Gob]

He's done the Remain campaign no end of good by his actions.

Just think, the whole of the most important political decision in the UK for years, could be swung by the actions of one madman.

[Guinevere]

He's done the Remain campaign no end of good by his actions.

Just think, the whole of the most important political decision in the UK for years, could be swung by the actions of one madman.

Welcome to the U.S.A.

[Gob]

[liberty]

It should change nothing; crazy people do crazy things, but that has no effect on the facts. If EU membership was a bad deal for Britain before the shooting it still is, nothing has changed. If I lived the UK it wouldn’t change my vote. It would be illogical to allow a madman to control what you do.

[rubato]

With all due respect ...

Oh, not that one Daze...

"With all due respect" is the line people use when the next thing they plan to say is, "you're full of shit"...

(but perhaps in a more diplomatic way... )

"With all due respect" is the rhetorical twin sister to, "I'm not defending so-and-so or thus-and -such..."

(Declarations which are invariably immediately followed by full throated defenses of so-and-so or thus-and-such)

I'll call bullshit on this one because I actually argued this point with an idiot judge in rural Montana. 'With all due respect' is a formal preface to arguing an opposing point that is utilized by the solicitor general and all counsel before the SCOTUS and also is common in UK courts. It's also taught as good manners by most English grandmothers; it was by mine, anyway!

You're right.

"Will all due respect" is a way of telling the listener/reader that you are about to offer a differing opinion but do not wish to suggest that doing so is intended to diminish the intelligence or inherent dignity of the person(s) you are contradicting.

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

With all due respect rube, I disagree...

[Lord Jim]

He's done the Remain campaign no end of good by his actions.

Interesting thing about the polls taken after this tragedy versus the polls taken immediately before...

If one looks at them, and compares the numbers, support for Remain hasn't gone up... (The two most recent polls have Remain on 44% in one, 45% in another...unchanged from polls taken in the days before the murder...)

What happened was that the momentum that was shifting the undecided vote to Leave was reversed, and that percentage moved back from Leave to undecided....

Putting the race back into a within-the-margin-of-error toss up....

There has been no significant increase for Remain...

How the folks who were moving to Leave but moved back to undecided in the immediate wake of the shooting will vote, (now a week later from the initial emotional impact of the event) is what will decide the outcome....

[Guinevere]

My swede has been in London this last week and he thinks Remain squeaks it out.

[MajGenl.Meade]

So much less interesting if "Remain" wins. Much as I detest Trump, it must be admit that if he were to win, that would be interesting too. "Remain" and Hillary are both dull. Not that dull isn't sometimes best.

Even so...

[Guinevere]

Confess, you're one of those people who can't look away from a car crash, and even slow down, right?

I'll take stable and sane, thank you very much.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I've yet to be the first person to drive past a car crash - you kinda haveto slow down when a mile of lookie-loos are in front of yez. But if it counts, I am driven to naughty words when people going THIS way on the freeway slow down to look at that accident over on the OTHER SIDE of the freeway.

Still, you never know. Probably if I was first along I'd actually stop and try to help. Hasn't been tested. I have regretted that grand prix racing has become so fast that four-wheel drifts are no longer possible - it's either stick on the road or go end over end. It used to be good, back in the 50s.

[RayThom]

My swede has been in London this last week and he thinks Remain squeaks it out.

I agree. My English relatives (mostly Labour Party) all seem to indicate 'remain' will win. I'm thinking similar to the percentages as the Scotland vote for independence. Both issues are economy driven and the middle class is still not doing well in the UK. It will come down to fear of the known vs. fear of the unknown.

[Guinevere]

I've yet to be the first person to drive past a car crash - you kinda haveto slow down when a mile of lookie-loos are in front of yez. But if it counts, I am driven to naughty words when people going THIS way on the freeway slow down to look at that accident over on the OTHER SIDE of the freeway.

Still, you never know. Probably if I was first along I'd actually stop and try to help. Hasn't been tested. I have regretted that grand prix racing has become so fast that four-wheel drifts are no longer possible - it's either stick on the road or go end over end. It used to be good, back in the 50s.

Whatever. I think you missed the analogy part of my comments. My country is not a car crash, thanks much.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I'm willing to bet that everyone slows down at car crashes (a subject that you brought up). Why, they even become interested in crashes on the other side of the divide. If anyone missed an analogy, it's you (IMO).

Given the similarity between road death statistics and gun death statistics in this country, the overall decline in morality and the corresponding increase in selfish ill-manners, and the resultant "choices" coming up in November, I suggest that our country may indeed be in a parlous state. Keep on speeding past the flashing lights then.

Perhaps it will not be dull, either way.

[Sue U]

So much less interesting if "Remain" wins. Much as I detest Trump, it must be admit that if he were to win, that would be interesting too. "Remain" and Hillary are both dull. Not that dull isn't sometimes best.

Even so...

You know that "May you live in interesting times" is a curse, don't you?

[Lord Jim]

You know that "May you live in interesting times" is a curse, don't you?

I was going to post that one, (it's generally attributed as being an ancient Chinese curse) but yesterday when I looked it up to make sure I had the wording exactly correct, that the story is apocryphal:

'May you live in interesting times' is widely reported as being of ancient Chinese origin but is neither Chinese nor ancient, being recent and western. It certainly seems to have been intended to sound oriental, in the faux-Chinese 'Confucius he say' style, but that's as near to China as it actually gets. Confucius's actual sayings are as elusive as those of his western counterpart Aesop - we have no written records from either of them.

The phrase was introduced in the 20th century in the form 'interesting age' rather than 'interesting times' and appears that way in the opening remarks made by Frederic R. Coudert at the Proceedings of the Academy of Political Science, 1939:

Some years ago, in 1936, I had to write to a very dear and honored friend of mine, who has since died, Sir Austen Chamberlain, brother of the present Prime Minister, and I concluded my letter with a rather banal remark, "that we were living in an interesting age." Evidently he read the whole letter, because by return mail he wrote to me and concluded as follows: "Many years ago, I learned from one of our diplomats in China that one of the principal Chinese curses heaped upon an enemy is, 'May you live in an interesting age.'" "Surely", he said, "no age has been more fraught with insecurity than our own present time." That was three years ago.

This citation has to be treated with caution as Chamberlain didn't speak Chinese and never visited China, although he was in contact with diplomats stationed there during his time as British Foreign Secretary, that is, 1924-1929. We have the 1939 citation in print, so the 'interesting age' form must be at least that old. If we are to believe Coulson's assertion, the phrase dates from before 1936 and, if we trust in Chamberlain's recollection, we can push the origin back to pre-1929.

As to the currently used 'interesting times' version, we can only date that to post WWII. No one is sure who introduced the term but the person who did most to bring it to the public's attention was Robert Kennedy. In a speech in Cape Town in June 1966, Kennedy said:

There is a Chinese curse which says 'May he live in interesting times.' Like it or not we live in interesting times. They are times of danger and uncertainty; but they are also more open to the creative energy of men than any other time in history.

As those who lived through the 1960s (and can remember) will recall, they were nothing if not interesting.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/may- ... times.html