No Kale no sale

[Gob]

WASHINGTON
New federal regulations intended to promote healthy eating could make it harder to use food stamps at convenience stores – a change that opponents say will leave disadvantaged people with fewer places to buy groceries.

The standards proposed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture would require retailers that accept food stamps to stock more and fresher varieties of food. But many convenience stores won’t be able to meet the requirements and will be forced from the the federal Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, commonly known as SNAP, or food stamps, critics say.

Mary Braddock frets that could happen to the convenience stores run by her family near Kansas City, Missouri. Open from 5 a.m. to 11:30 p.m., the Meiners Markets in Lee’s Summit and Blue Springs sell everything from bulk candy and beer to fresh fruit and vegetables. Attached to gas stations, they’re handy pit stops for early risers and late-night shift workers, some of whom rely on food stamps to grab groceries on the go.

But Meiners Markets don’t have the shelf space to display the mandatory number of items at all times, and it will be too costly to stock all the unprocessed and perishable foods required, Braddock said.

Her customers aren’t likely to buy kale, duck or lamb, she said, so such products “will just spoil on the shelves.”

Braddock and other critics of the USDA proposal – including Democratic and Republican lawmakers – complain the new standards will be impossible for many convenience stores and rural markets to meet.

As a result, they warn, tens of thousands of stores across the country could stop accepting food stamps.

“We don’t understand why USDA has drafted this proposed rule in a way that will make it so difficult for small stores to participate in SNAP and will make it harder for SNAP beneficiaries to get food,” Braddock said.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politic ... rylink=cpy

[rubato]

New proposed federal regulations

not actual, yet.


yrs,
rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

No, their customers are more likely to buy DingDongs, doughnuts and drek. For which the US taxpayers pay. "Food" stamps - emphasis on "food" not trailer-trash staples

(And before you go all liberal over me, my daughter is a beneficiary of the food stamp - not that it's stamps or coupons any more - program)

[Burning Petard]

What crazy nutritionist thinks food stamp users should be able to buy Duck? That bird is not simple to prepare and it is loaded with fat.
I buy about 2-3 ducks per year to make Cassoulet. I have to hunt around to find it in major chain groceries and it is always frozen. Now frozen rabbit is another matter.

I have been on food stamps. Used to get dirty looks from other people in line because I was buying 'ground beef' instead of the cheaper hamburger. The rules said I could not buy hamburger because at that time it was made from imported cattle, from outside the USA and foreign food products were not allowed. So no canned tuna from Bumble Bee either.

snailgate

[oldr_n_wsr]

Duck is good. Fresh duck is great.
LI used to be the duck capital of the east. I think there is only one large duck farm left. There are a few small farms that not only have duck but have other "odd" stuff available too like rabbit and whole pigs for pig roasts, turkey....
Wanna see tonights meal killed and butchered? go to one of those farms.

[Big RR]

Back to the OP, in many areas, especially urban and rural ones, the convenience stores are all that are available to people without access to a car to go to a supermarket. They have to think it through better to determine how these people will get access to the markets that have this diversity of goods.

[Sue U]

No, their customers are more likely to buy DingDongs, doughnuts and drek. For which the US taxpayers pay. "Food" stamps - emphasis on "food" not trailer-trash staples

(And before you go all liberal over me, my daughter is a beneficiary of the food stamp - not that it's stamps or coupons any more - program)

Yeah, no. Many SNAP beneficiaries "are more likely to buy DingDongs, doughnuts and drek" because that's all that is readily available to them. Fully stocked supermarkets -- whose profit margins on fresh produce and meats are extremely tight -- don't cater to poor people, but prefer to go after a wealthier clientele.

I can't embed this video so you'll have to go to the link, but it's six minutes worth considering:

Stranded in a Food Desert.

[oldr_n_wsr]

What BigRR and SueU said.
When I worked in Bed Sty, a very poor (and rough***) area back in the 70's and 80's, there wasn't a super market to be found. Plenty of bodega's where most people shopped. A few Korean produce stands were the healthiest choices most had. I don't know if they accepted food stamps (they were actual paper bills back then). We (I worked at a beer distributor) could take food stamps as regular currency from our wholesale customers (aka the bodega's) but not for retail sales.

***From what I hear now, Bed Sty and neighboring Buschwick are the "in" place to buy a house (brownstones mostly).

[MajGenl.Meade]

Fully stocked supermarkets -- whose profit margins on fresh produce and meats are extremely tight -- don't cater to poor people, but prefer to go after a wealthier clientele.

Yeah, I've noticed all the Beemers and Jags parked outside our local Acme - not so much. And Walmart of course - all the local elite go there. MARC's of course only takes cash, cheques, Discover, paper Food stamp vouchers and EBT (but not the WIC Nutrition Card - AHA!!!) because they don't like dealing with poor people at all.

What utter twaddle! Our local poor and OAPs shop at these places and food "stamps" are quite normal.

I'm sure there are rural poor who live a distance from the nearest Acme or Walmart. But so do their non-food-stamp working neighbors (also not wealthy) and they manage to find a vegetable once a week or so. Mind you, they probably all eat dingdongs, doughnuts and drek by preference too

Even so, those local "convenience" stores provide staples even if those are in cans and the freezer - it would be a hardship for them to offer fresh veg in any meaningful quantity. No one would buy them anyway - because they don't want to - and as the capitalist pig store owners aver, "It would just all go bad"

Duck? That would be ridiculous but does that come a line speaking of white meats such as chicken, turkey, duck, pork and so on. Sorry didn't read the link yet)

[Sue U]

Fully stocked supermarkets -- whose profit margins on fresh produce and meats are extremely tight -- don't cater to poor people, but prefer to go after a wealthier clientele.

Yeah, I've noticed all the Beemers and Jags parked outside our local Acme - not so much. And Walmart of course - all the local elite go there. MARC's of course only takes cash, cheques, Discover, paper Food stamp vouchers and EBT (but not the WIC Nutrition Card - AHA!!!) because they don't like dealing with poor people at all.

What utter twaddle! Our local poor and OAPs shop at these places and food "stamps" are quite normal.

Of course that's twaddle, because that's not what I said. I never said supermarkets don't take SNAP or any other form of tender. What I said was supermarkets don't locate in poor neighborhoods and that creates food deserts. People who don't have Beemers and Jags or even Yugos have difficulty -- often significant difficulty and sometimes impossibility -- getting to a decent grocery store.

I'm sure there are rural poor who live a distance from the nearest Acme or Walmart. But so do their non-food-stamp working neighbors (also not wealthy) and they manage to find a vegetable once a week or so.

According to whom? A "food desert" affects everyone who lives there whether or not they're getting SNAP. People who pay cash don't have any greater options. And as for being "working neighbors," well:

The overwhelming majority of SNAP recipients who can work do so. Among SNAP households with at least one working-age, non-disabled adult, more than half work while receiving SNAP — and more than 80 percent work in the year prior to or the year after receiving SNAP. The rates are even higher for families with children — more than 60 percent work while receiving SNAP, and almost 90 percent work in the prior or subsequent year. (See Figure 1.)[3]

The number of SNAP households that have earnings while participating in SNAP has been rising for more than a decade, and has more than tripled — from about 2 million in 2000 to about 6.4 million in 2011. (See Figure 2.) The increase was especially pronounced during the recent deep recession, suggesting that many people have turned to SNAP because of under-employment — for example, when one wage-earner in a two-parent family lost a job, when a worker’s hours were cut, or when a worker turned to a lower-paying job after being laid off.

Source.

Mind you, they probably all eat dingdongs, doughnuts and drek by preference too

Seriously, don't be a dick.

[Lord Jim]

Sue has a point here Gen'l...

I know it's not something that you, or I, (or probably anyone else here on this board) has ever personally experienced but "food deserts" are a real problem in many economically depressed urban communities...

Where I live currently within less than a mile radius, there are two major super markets, and probably a half a dozen pop and mom fresh produce stores...

There are parts of Detroit where you can go for miles without encountering a single food market of any size...

This isn't because of some "racist plot" on the part of the chain stores; there are many factors that contribute to the problem...

But the problem is a real one.

[Long Run]

And we all have our stories of being in a 7-11 behind the person who uses their food card to buy beef jerkey and Doritos, then pulls cash out to buy their six-pack and cigarettes. Obviously, this is not how most food card dollars are used, but it creates a negative sentiment. Of course, we also all have stories at being at a high-end store and someone uses the food card to pay for expensive and healthy food. It seems like it would be very difficult to try to have a broad based mandated policy that covers these perceived abuses. Probably being vigilant on reviewing income eligibility and increased education is the best we can hope for.

[Joe Guy]

This is part of Trump's plan for running the country as our president. Under this plan, store owners will go out of business and become poor resulting in all low income families not having food available to them, not even Ding Dongs, and they will die.

That will decrease the surplus population and only allow people who pay taxes to eat food. With only working people eating, tax revenues will increase and Trump will eliminate SNAP and whatever remaining welfare leeches still existing will die and decrease the cost of health care.

This will make America great again.

[rubato]

No, their customers are more likely to buy DingDongs, doughnuts and drek. For which the US taxpayers pay. "Food" stamps - emphasis on "food" not trailer-trash staples

(And before you go all liberal over me, my daughter is a beneficiary of the food stamp - not that it's stamps or coupons any more - program)

Do you have any evidence at all that people on food stamps buy more junk food than the population as a whole?

Or is that just what pleases you to say about them?


yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

Meade--I agree with sue as well; I live in a town without any public transportation (other than commuter buses to NYC) and there is not a supermarket within walking distance (especially when you consider you will have to walk back with bags of groceries). If you have no car, you simply cannot get to the store, other than convenience stores which are within a half a mile. I worry about this as I contemplate retirement and the day when neither my wife nor I can drive anymore.

The same is true for urban areas; Newark NJ has only one supermarket despite its size; ditto for Paterson. Most of the supermarkets locate in the suburbs where space is less at a premium and people can park in a free lot, but those without cars are pretty much SOL. Of course, there are convenience stores, and this is where the people shop. As jim said, the problem is a real one. Super markets took the place of green grocers and butcher in many areas, and now it is difficult to find any of those independent shops; and the supermarkets are often difficult to access.

It's all well and good to insist that people have access to healthier and fresh foods, but it's not going to happen by magic.

[oldr_n_wsr]

You know what else I noticed?
When there is a supermarket in a poor area, the prices are higher than in the more affluent areas.
Same goes for the bodega type stores and produce markets.
Lack of competition?
operating expences?
Becuase they can?

[Long Run]

I worry about this as I contemplate retirement and the day when neither my wife nor I can drive anymore.

Amazon prime has started partnering with local grocers for two-hour delivery. Should solve your issue, but not the bigger problem of food deserts.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Stop and Shop runs Pea Pod which delivers. Tried to google but the Pea Pod site is blocked here at work.
I've seen thier trucks around the area.

[Big RR]

You know what else I noticed?
When there is a supermarket in a poor area, the prices are higher than in the more affluent areas.
Same goes for the bodega type stores and produce markets.
Lack of competition?
operating expences?
Becuase they can?

Well the bodegas generally have a higher wholesale cost than a big chain, so that's a big reason for the high pricing, but the others contribute as well (and a lot of bodegas extend credit and these expenses are also factored into the food prices.

Not sure about the big chains.

[Big RR]

LR and oldr--thanks for the information. I have been thinking of this for a while now as we consider selling our home and downsizing; choosing where to live is difficult.