Colour me surprised

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Lord Jim
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by Lord Jim »

Jim--is it your position that such "disrespectful behavior" for the flag or national anthem is never justified? That it will always be wrongheaded/ignorant/disrespectful?
I am "always" reluctant to say "never" because it invites the presentation of some really bizarre hypotheticals, ("Well, what if aliens invaded and a dictatorship were imposed on the country and this was the only form of protest available to speak out against it? Would you support it then?")

But I will say that I can envision no realistic scenario where I would consider it to be anything other than disrespectful and wrong-headed. Far more appropriate and properly directed forms of protest are readily available no matter what injustice one wishes to protest.

Additionally in this particular case, based on quotes I've read, Kaepernick appears to be ignorant of a great many things, over and beyond the representational meaning of the flag and the anthem.

To give just one example, one thing that seems to be really upsetting to him is that some police officers have been placed on paid suspension while their cases are investigated, rather than being summarily tossed in the clink, no questions asked...

So while his RIGHT to free speech is preciously important to him, when it comes to other people's RIGHTS to due process and the presumption of innocence...

Not so much...

Here are some more Americans exercising their RIGHT to free speech:
Kaepernick gets mercilessly booed for an entire half in San Diego



SAN DIEGO -- If Colin Kaepernick plans on protesting the national anthem for the entire 2016 season, then he better get ready for the boo birds. If his latest game in San Diego was any indication, they're going to be out in full force whenever he's on the field.

The 49ers' visit to San Diego was Kaepernick's first game since his national anthem protest went public, and let's just say Chargers fans didn't seem too empathetic to Kaepernick's cause.

The booing of Kaepernick started as soon as he ran on Thursday night and didn't stop until 49ers coach Chip Kelly pulled him from the game at the beginning of the second half.

Chargers fans were relentless with Kaepernick, booing him on all 34 plays that he participated in during the 49ers 31-21 win.

After the team was done honoring the soldiers during the pregame, Kaepernick went to a knee just before the anthem started, and that's when the booing got bad.

During the anthem itself, which was sung by Petty Officer 1st Class Steven Powell, there was no booing by Chargers fans. However, as soon as the song was over, fans started booing Kaepernick again.

Again, Kaepernick was literally booed for all 34 plays that he was on the field.

The 49ers quarterback has been facing some serious backlash since Aug. 26 when his protest went public. Kaepernick has made it clear that he's not going to stand for the national anthem until police brutality against minorities comes to and end. [I think he should continue this until all war comes to an end, and we achieve total world peace...]
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look- ... san-diego/
Last edited by Lord Jim on Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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rubato
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by rubato »

If you're a police officer you can handcuff a black man, put him in a metal box on the back of a car and slam him around until you break his neck and kill him. Then get paid time off.


Whereas if you are black and female you will be thrown in jail for changing lanes without signaling; where you will die.


yrs,
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Big RR
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by Big RR »

Jim--I can respect your position on this form of protest being "wrongheaded" although I obviously disagree with it.

As for his actual complaints, I have not read much about them in detail and will refrain from commenting.

As for the "booing", that is the right of those attending the game and they can boo as loud as they want

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Lord Jim
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by Lord Jim »

I can respect your position... although I obviously disagree with it.
Ditto...

This country would be a much better place if there were more of that going on... :ok
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by BoSoxGal »

I think he has great courage and conviction and now he's pledged to donate $1 million of his salary this year to community organizations - so he's not just looking for some weird attention, he really cares about effecting change.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by Lord Jim »

so he's not just looking for some weird attention, he really cares about effecting change.

Kudos to him for the donation...

And as I've said, while I have a lot of criticism for what he has chosen to do, one thing I absolutely do not question is his sincerity...

It seems to me that he must be acting out of a sincere motivation, since this is clearly not a great career move, and it's not going to put any money in his pocket or win him any popularity contests...



Here's a good example of that last point, from today's Chron:
49ers Kaepernick once a hero, now goat in hometown

URLOCK, Stanislaus County — Hurricane Colin has hit this town hard.

The ferocious nationwide storm caused by Colin Kaepernick’s star-spangled sit-down did some of its deepest psychic damage on the city where he grew up and where he was, until last week, a hero, legend and treasure.

Now Kaepernick isn’t even a cookie or a hot dog.

The cute little 49ers’ No. 7 jersey cookie is no longer available at Olde Tyme pastries, and the Kaepernick-tribute hot dog is off the menu at Footer’s. Karma payback for the young man who has given the town a tummy ache.

“It made me sick,” Mike Anderson says of his reaction when Kaepernick sat out the national anthem last week. “I cry when the national anthem is played.”

Anderson, a Vietnam vet who says Agent Orange caused his cancer, is drowning his angst in a noon hot dog and beer at Hauck’s Grill in Turlock’s historic downtown district, where an American flag flies from every lamppost.

Until the storm, Hauck’s proudly displayed a Kaepernick helmet, signed jersey and photos. They’re now gone.

But Kaepernick himself is about to appear Thursday night, on a dozen TV screens. KapFrenzy? Never happens, not here. This is a hot spot for TV sports, but not tonight, despite the drama over the national anthem, and over Kaepernick’s start, which might be the last stand — NFL-wise — for Turlock’s mystery man.

There are about 20 customers, mostly families and kids. Zero buzz. Zero reaction to Kaepernick’s silent protest at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego. Chalk it up to preseason blahs? Turlock Kaepernick burnout?

Who knows? Kaepernick doesn’t sit on the bench — as he said he would continue to do — when the anthem is sung, instead kneeling with teammate Eric Reid. When he takes the field for the game-opening drive, Chargers fans boo him roundly. The catcalls continue throughout the night, every time he touches the ball.

Kaepernick, though, seems unaffected by the backlash. Playing better than he did a week ago in his preseason debut, he leads the team to a touchdown on its first possession.

But there’s no way people here have forgotten the controversy. These are sensitive times in Turlock, a town quite uncomfortable in this new spotlight. Best not to ask questions about disappearing cookies or helmets.

“I’m just not commenting one way or another,” says one business owner who has scrubbed away all Kaepernick traces. “Whatever I do or say, either way, it’s going to hurt my business.”

The Dust Bowl brew pub, across the street from Hauck’s, is off-limits to media bloodhounds and vultures. Same deal with Kaepernick’s alma mater, Pitman High.

And that was the case before the socks hit the fan Thursday morning, the news of Kaepernick’s police-mocking footwear. That news was a gut punch to the few folks supporting their guy.

When I came here to do a Kaepernick story after the 49ers drafted him, and again when he was riding high, the mood was dramatically different. Pitman’s principal turned his office into a stage on which teachers and coaches told inspiring and genuinely touching stories.

Kaepernick, more than Pitman’s most famous alum, is the school’s Founding Dude. He was a string-bean freshman when the school opened in 2003. Pitman was so uncool, zero tradition, but Kaepernick said defiantly, “We’ll start our own tradition here,” and boy, did he.

But when Hurricane Colin hit last week, the school district put Pitman off-limits to the media. The new principal, Kaepernick’s math teacher, cited a need to not distract the students.


Kaepernick’s best friend in high school and beyond now runs a local gym. He tells me Wednesday, sure, he’ll talk about Colin, then Thursday he doesn’t answer his phone or return calls.

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A sad, dark cloud hovers over Turlock, 72,000 population (about 2 percent black). The city is small and rural. At Perko’s the restroom sign reminds patrons, “Don’t squat with your spurs on.”

Everyone seems to know Kaepernick or know someone who knows him, but his approval rating has slipped from about 200 percent to single-digit.

“I think what he did was right,” says Gricelda Barajas, the only pro-Kaepernicker I find. “He’s standing up for what he believes in.”

She said she’s no fan of Kaepernick the player, but, “I support his ideas.”

Her boyfriend, Abel Lopez, sporting a 49ers’ tattoo and No. 85 Vernon Davis jersey, disagrees. “I don’t really care too much about Kaepernick. Only all the girls like him.”

The criticism is mostly tempered and sad, not angry and loud.

Phillip Gallardo, a cook at Jams 209 sports bar, played youth football and baseball with Kaepernick.

“A lot of my friends don’t want him on the (49ers) anymore, it’s a circus,” Gallardo says, quietly. “Of course there’s injustice and people are getting mistreated. Go do something about it.”

Gallardo objects to Kaepernick using his workplace as a protest forum. “You know what? It’s your job to do your job.”

At the Turlock Poker Room and Casino, Kim Nichols says she wishes Kaepernick had done something to unite, not divide.

“He would give back more by standing up and saying all of us, black and white, need to come together. He could do more, (such as) donate to a police program for cops and inner-city kids. I think he could have done a better job, and that’s why I think folks are disappointed in him.”

Colin’s parents, Rick and Teresa Kaepernick, who now live up the road in Modesto, are quietly riding out the storm.

“Teresa and I have had nothing but support from our friends in Turlock,” Rick Kaepernick says via email, “and we have had nothing but support from those who reached out.”

He adds, “This is the same kid who they embraced when he was representing the town on a national level. People have been told not to talk about it. This is the problem, people don’t want to address the issues. They will hurt their business or they don’t want to take a stand. As a family, we greatly appreciate the people of Turlock who have supported us.”

On TV at Hauck’s, Kaepernick is looking sharp, moving the 49ers.

“What happens if he starts playing well?” asks a customer, Kevin Bixel.

That’s a wrinkle most of us didn’t anticipate.

Quietly, the storm rages on.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/ostle ... 199265.php
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liberty
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by liberty »

Instead of protesting how about doing something that might have a real effect on the quality of policing. Why not a state level organization that has the ability and the sole mission of investigating and rooting out bad cops?

People don’t want a solution they want something to fight about.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Econoline
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by Econoline »

Let's see now...

It's fine to exercise your constitutional right to protest, so long as no one gets hurt...and no property is damaged...and no one is inconvenienced...or angered...or annoyed...or intimidated...or embarrassed...or offended...or discombobulated...

Does that just about cover it?
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Econoline
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by Econoline »

Also too:
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People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Colour me surprised

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Econo, I'd like to ask you a question...

How do you feel about it when people are "inconvenienced...or angered...or annoyed...or intimidated...or embarrassed...or offended...or discombobulated..." by anti-abortion protestors?
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Long Run
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by Long Run »

“What happens if he starts playing well?” asks a customer, Kevin Bixel.

That’s a wrinkle most of us didn’t anticipate.
That's a good point. His coach from a few years ago, Harbaugh, "coached him up" and designed an offense that hid his weaknesses. It is likely that Chip Kelly (current coach) can do the same (as he has done everywhere he has been). If he plays like he did 3-4 years ago, people will allow for more expression of opinion. Similarly, as noted, Kap has put a lot on the line given how he has been playing -- if he continues to play at a mediocre-poor level, then when he is cut by the 49ers, no one will want him because of the distraction he will bring with him is not worth balanced by being a good player (like Tebow could not find another team even though he would be an able backup on many teams).

rubato
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by rubato »

Kaepernicks standing with his teammates is higher than it has ever been and a second player is joining in his protest.

Yrs,
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Gob
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by Gob »

What? Two black players not standing for the Anthem? That'll put an end to the oppression of Blacks.

Is the Anthem played at every parochial match?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

rubato wrote:Kaepernicks standing with his teammates is higher than it has ever been and a second player is joining in his protest.

Yrs,
Rubato
Shorely, not shtanding?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Lord Jim
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Re: Colour me surprised

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Kaepernicks standing with his teammates is higher than it has ever been
Gee rube, I wasn't aware that you had the kind of insider knowledge about the 49er players to be able to make that claim...(since very few of them have said anything publicly about it)

Come to think of it, I'm still not aware of that...
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Image

This. A surefire way to exhibit mature efforts to encourage thoughtful responses to real problems.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Econoline
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Re: Colour me surprised

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Lord Jim wrote:Econo, I'd like to ask you a question...

How do you feel about it when people are "inconvenienced...or angered...or annoyed...or intimidated...or embarrassed...or offended...or discombobulated..." by anti-abortion protestors?
First of all, that's really seven separate questions (not to mention the fact that I just threw in "discombobulated" in an attempt at humor). Some of those things bother me quite a bit, especially the intimidation of women who are already going through a traumatic or at least emotionally difficult experience. "Inconvenience" is relative, and depends on who is being inconvenienced, and how, and how much.

But since the only things on that list that apply at all to the subject of this thread are anger/annoyance/offence--experienced mostly by random people far, far away from the event itself--I'd have to say that if a particular anti-abortion protest caused *ONLY* anger/annoyance/offence of random people far, far away from the event itself I wouldn't agree with the protesters but I also certainly wouldn't call for them to be punished by job loss or harsh financial penalties.
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liberty
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by liberty »

Are there people that lose their jobs or suffer severe financial penalties for protesting at abortion clinics?
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Econoline
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by Econoline »

As far as I know, no. The question I was answering above was asked (by Jim, to me, specifically) in the context of the current controversy over Colin Kaepernick’s protest--and that punishment seems to be what many of his critics are demanding he face.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Re: Colour me surprised

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

liberty wrote:Meade, coming soon back to the beginning and the steppes. Can you see a connection between Jehovah and the great sky father?
No. And don't ask questions in sig lines
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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