North Carolina Voter ID law --"discriminatory intent"

[Crackpot]

So they're changing the definition of rare and never then?

[Guinevere]

31/1,000,000,000

The numbers after the .0000000 don't even show up on the calculator on my phone.....

[Crackpot]

Use a better calculator. You're ago aging a logic that could be used to say things like Islamic terrorism doesn't exist.

[Guinevere]

And don't buy the bullshit that it's criminals and illegals who are impacted by voting ID laws. It's newly registered voters, young voters, african american and other "brown" voters -- who are citizens and who have the right to vote -- and they are being disenfranchised by the tens of thousands, and more. From the piece:

During the 2012 election, voter ID laws in Kansas and Tennessee reduced turnout by about 2 percent, or about 122,000 votes, according to a 2014 analysis by the Government Accountability Office. Turnout fell the most among young people, African-Americans and newly registered voters. Another study analyzing elections from 2006 through 2014 found that voting by eligible minority citizens decreased significantly in states with voter ID laws and “that the racial turnout gap doubles or triples in states” with those laws.

[Guinevere]

In what federal election does 31 out of a billion make a difference? But 100K can surely impact the result. That's the point, and you're completely missing it.

[Guinevere]

Use a better calculator. You're ago aging a logic that could be used to say things like Islamic terrorism doesn't exist.

Complete and utter strawman. Your math is wrong, your english is wrong, and your "logic" is non-existent.

[Burning Petard]

Requiring universal id card for everyone, after all it works in South Africa? Why use such old-fashioned technology. A local cop (I live in a university town, famous for its party culture) told me fake id is really good now. He can't even trust a US passport. Even good fakes for the high-tech federal blessed driver's license are now around.

So why not 'chip' everybody? Has been used with great success in animal research labs for decades. Cheaply available for pets now and all the animal shelters have readers. It has long been established to have no bad medical consequences.

Showing id when voting is just common sense. 'Course, flat earth is also just common sense. The chip could use technology that would not even need contact to read it. When my son went missing, he was found with automatic license plate readers that tracked his car as he went through toll booths. It would be so handy when authorities needed to find somebody, not just criminals. It just makes common sense.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/opini ... ef=opinion

This is an editorial, and it is from the NY Times today, so naturally it is all just lies. But to quote the lead:
How does a lie come to be widely taken as the truth? The answer is disturbingly simple:
Repeat it over and over again. When faced with facts that contradict the lie, repeat it louder.

I remember the punch line repeated on the old site with the Outhouse logo when Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was the hot topic,
"and then they voted."

More advantage to the powerful with the dumbed-down general population. The Sage of Baltimore was so right.

Voter id--The multi-million dollar solution to the nonexistent problem.

snailgate.

[Crackpot]

Bad arguments do your case no good. Statistically insignificant does not mean zero. To pretend it does just makes it look like you are trying to hide something.

[Burning Petard]

It is close enuff to zero that proponents find it very hard to find even one example in actual arguments in court. The badly maintained and programed voting technology produces far more doubtful results. The sanctity of the ballot is not the motivator for voter id laws. To pretend it is just makes it look like you are trying to hide something.

snailgate.

[Crackpot]

Then let that be on them.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Turnout fell the most among young people, African-Americans and newly registered voters.

Because as we all know, the young, blacks and newly registered voters are just too damn dumb to prove who they are. They are incapable of getting a state ID or a driving license. (Note for rubato before he quotes these two sentences alone to claim that I believe such a thing; this is sarcasm directed at liberals)

It sounds like racism to me - racism by the opponents of a requirement for proof of identity in order to vote.

No. Those numbers who didn't vote are disenfranchising themselves.

Look at all the elements of life in the USA that require you prove your identity. Where are the cries of "racism" claiming that people of color, old farts, young farts and those recently over the age of majority are disproportionately denied US Passports because they are "unable" to prove their identity?

For some reason, it's only in voting that minorities are just too incapable of managing their lives. White paternalism lives on!

[rubato]

Use a better calculator. You're ago aging a logic that could be used to say things like Islamic terrorism doesn't exist.

If Islamic terrorism had done as little harm as voter fraud has we would never have heard of it and no one would spend a dime trying to do anything about it.


Yrs,
Rubato

[rubato]

Turnout fell the most among young people, African-Americans and newly registered voters.

Because as we all know, the young, blacks and newly registered voters are just too damn dumb to prove who they are. They are incapable of getting a state ID or a driving license. (Note for rubato before he quotes these two sentences alone to claim that I believe such a thing; this is sarcasm directed at liberals)

It sounds like racism to me - racism by the opponents of a requirement for proof of identity in order to vote.

No. Those numbers who didn't vote are disenfranchising themselves.

Look at all the elements of life in the USA that require you prove your identity. Where are the cries of "racism" claiming that people of color, old farts, young farts and those recently over the age of majority are disproportionately denied US Passports because they are "unable" to prove their identity?

For some reason, it's only in voting that minorities are just too incapable of managing their lives. White paternalism lives on!

If partipation in democracy is a good thing then we should make it easier for people who are elderly, poor, rural, less educated, recent immigrant citizens, &mc. It is certainly destructive to democracy to increase barriers when there is no justification for doing so. As we have seen is the case in this thread. And it is naked brutal racism to add barriers which in practice disenfranchise groups selectively.


Yrs,
Rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

Barriers, my arse. Why are you not complaining that it's racism to have to prove your identity to get a US passport?

Obviously it must be more difficult for the "elderly, poor, rural, less educated, recent immigrant citizens" (oh, wait - the latter have a citizenship certificate issued by the government) to get passports if they can't provide an ID. Ergo, racism.

No, to me it's racism to declare that an entire category of people (black, let's be open about it) are incapable of living a life that includes getting an ID.

[Burning Petard]

Too dumb too prove who they are? Please tell me how producing a paper birth certificate when I am 21 years old and the 'birth certificate' was prepared by various governmental offices when I was less than 10 days old, and a 'taxpayer id number' was issued at the same time, establishes any actual proof that there is a real, justified confidence that those pieces of old paper have any 'identification' connection with me more than 20 years after those pieces of paper were created.

Thank you, snailgate

[MajGenl.Meade]

It is not my idea that they are too dumb to prove their identity. That seems to be the constant bleat of liberals who condescend to blacks on a routine basis. According to them, only blacks find it impossible to identify themselves sufficiently to vote (plus a few old persons or some such).

I fail to see your point, unless you contend that it is impossible for any person to obtain a photo ID. That, I suggest, is quite silly.

It would be insufficient if you produced those two documents to obtain a U.S. passport. Is the government therefore racist?

[Bicycle Bill]

Bad arguments do your case no good. Statistically insignificant does not mean zero. To pretend it does just makes it look like you are trying to hide something.

Not everything needs to have a 0.00000000...∞ chance of something happening before it is considered "workable".  If that were the case, you would never drive your car, board an airliner, or even get out of bed in the morning.

But "insignificant" still means "insignificant".  Even if it were 31 fraudulent votes out of 100K ballots cast, that is still only 0.00031%.  And if you were to ask 100,000 people at random on the street and told them that the next time they got into their car or boarded a flight there was a 0.00031% of it breaking down or crashing, I pretty much guaran-dam-tee you that all of them would agree that this is the next thing to 'never' and would get behind the wheel or walk through the jetway with no further thought about it whatsoever.

-"BB"-

[Big RR]

It is not my idea that they are too dumb to prove their identity. That seems to be the constant bleat of liberals who condescend to blacks on a routine basis. According to them, only blacks find it impossible to identify themselves sufficiently to vote (plus a few old persons or some such).

Meade--could you please show me where anyone has stated their belief that blacks (or anyone else for that matter) are "too dumb to prove their identity"? I have not seen that.

My biggest complaint is that voting is a right of all citizens (excepting, of course, the few who have lost that right by due process. It is not just the right of people who have a picture ID, or who can get to the motor vehicles during their work day and get a picture ID, or who can pull together all the Ids required by the DMV for the photo ID, etc. It is a right available to all citizens by means of just being a citizen without any other requirement.

If there really is a need to have ID laws, I haven't seen it. I've heard the unsupported allegations of voter fraud, but really very little substance of these allegations. You don't restrict rights for something so remote IMHO.

[datsunaholic]

It has nothing to do with someone being "too dumb" to show ID.

Too poor, that's another story. Those ID cards aren't free. And for the sick and infirm, you aren't going to stand around a DNV office or wherever else you can get a Federally-acceptable microchipped photo ID for 2 or 3 hours to get your picture taken.

I had this argument with one of my co-volunteers at the museum I work at. Same rhetoric- "Illegal Aliens are flocking to the walk-up polls, saying "I'm an American" and voting Democrat". Yeah, not happening.

I asked him how much ID he shows at the polls. Of course, that's a somewhat loaded question- here in Washington State, we HAVE no polls. Well, technically, every county has a place you can get a replacement ballot if you didn't get yours in the mail, but there aren't any neighborhood polling sites anymore. It's all done by mail. The only time you ever have to show any sort of ID is when you register, and even then it's not photo ID. Of course, in the backwards part of the country, voting by mail is pretty much banned by law, mainly because that's the last way those States can impose racially and economically biased voting "restrictions" without being called on it. Of course, THEY claim it's to reduce the rampant fraud that the all-mail or even partial absentee balloting has (which it doesn't).

[BoSoxGal]

Meade you simply don't understand the life of the working poor or impoverished if you don't get why just the business hours required to get an ID is a huge hardship, or insurmountable, to many working people. They simply can't get the ID, even IF they can afford the fee they can't afford to miss work because many of these folks live hand to mouth. It's no reason to be disenfranchised.