Econoline wrote:The story said his car broke down; if the driver had been a white woman the police probably would have come to her assistance...maybe they wouldn't even have told her to keep her hands up....
What if it was a white woman who was as tall and wide as this guy and responded the same way?
FWIW - the story I read said that the engine of the car was running.
MajGenl.Meade wrote:#1 the act of running from a police officer is suspicious enough to warrant a stop. Walking or standing still would not be. Mind you, try walking away from an officer and that usually doesn't work; you still get confronted and asked for ID which of course you can refuse with all the attendant risks (wear a body-cam at all times).
#3 a wheelchair guy can claim profiling because a nearby crime was committed by "a guy in a wheelchair"? Happens a lot in your neighborhood?
The act of running from a police officer demonstrates a rational response to the fact that police are more than 12 times as likely to kill someone else as to be killed themselves.
rubato wrote:The act of running from a police officer demonstrates a rational response to the fact that police are more than 12 times as likely to kill someone else as to be killed themselves.
The act of running from a police officer demonstrates an irrational response to the fact that police are more likely to use substantial and/or lethal force if you run away from them instead of surrendering.
Perhaps Joe Guy, but that still ignores the fact that the police do not have the right to accost, stop, search, or question anyone absent probable cause, not do they have the right to use force (deadly or not) to apprehend someone who is not under arrest and has the right to run wherever they want to.
police are more than 12 times as likely to kill someone else as to be killed themselves.
In the pantheon of meaningless statistics that prove absolutely nothing that one certainly deserves a prominent place...
I wonder how many more times it's likely that a police officer will be in a situation where the use of lethal force is justified versus the number of times it's justified in being used against them...
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it's probably a much higher multiple than 12...
Big RR wrote:Perhaps Joe Guy, but that still ignores the fact that the police do not have the right to accost, stop, search, or question anyone absent probable cause
Partly crap. The police have every right to walk up to someone and ask, "Excuse me, but can I help you, ma'am?" (or 'sir' as the case may be). Or they have the right to ask, "Excuse me but did you see three guys just walk down here?" And the person asked has every right to ignore the question and walk away. (Any person with a modicum of manners would answer the question).
But if I was a cop and I got as far as "Excuse..." and the person suddenly took off running, I'd take that as a "sense of guilt" fleeing from the presence of the law and cause for further investigation (though definitely not gunfire!).
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Fuck the police; I was raised to respect them but I no longer do and if I were a black man in this country, I'd avoid them at all costs.
The other day I spoke to a black man at a stoplight about his taillight being out, which he was unaware of - as drivers often are until it's pointed out to them. For me it would mean a nice warning from a cop, for him it could mean death. That's FUCKED UP!
It's well past time to fix this problem and since the president of the fraternal order doesn't recognize there is one, we have MUCH work to do!
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
Wow ,BSG, my respect has really been eroded for the "Finest " too.But maybe not quite that far ,as long as they do not go on a power trip with me ,we usually get along alright ,but yes I do try to avoid them .
At least the lady cop in Tulsa has now been charged the voluntary manslaughter in the case. IF she is convicted, she may be sentenced for four years up to life. That's one jury I'd gladly serve on, but I'm sure they wouldn't let me as soon as they figured out how I felt about the matter.
Yesterday I saw a video of the lady cop in this shooting, explaining herself. She said "I have never been so afraid in my life." There is lots of evidence that a human being in such a state does not process information accurately. She may well have been 'shouting instructions' to the black male driver, and she was so certain he was dangerous that she could not accept that his hands were up and he was walking away from her.
Clearly, many police organizations around the country need to do much more 'stress training' so they can choose to take action that controls the actual situation without killing. "I have never been so afraid in my life." The basic principle of training for combat is to make the training tougher than the real thing. But that has monetary costs. Cheaper for towns to just pay the wrongful death suits.
BoSoxGal wrote:Fuck the police; I was raised to respect them but I no longer do and if I were a black man in this country, I'd avoid them at all costs.
The other day I spoke to a black man at a stoplight about his taillight being out, which he was unaware of - as drivers often are until it's pointed out to them. For me it would mean a nice warning from a cop, for him it could mean death. That's FUCKED UP!
It's well past time to fix this problem and since the president of the fraternal order doesn't recognize there is one, we have MUCH work to do!
Treat police like you would any other armed gangbanger. Also, never speak to or interact with them under any circumstances. The only things you EVER say to police are, "This interaction is being recorded and saved off-site in real time," and "Am I being detained or am I free to go?"
Jarlaxle wrote:Treat police like you would any other armed gangbanger. Also, never speak to or interact with them under any circumstances. The only things you EVER say to police are, "This interaction is being recorded and saved off-site in real time," and "Am I being detained or am I free to go?"
Screw you, Jarlaxle. I treat the police like I treat everybody else — with courtesy and respect until such time as they prove to me that they do not merit such consideration.
And that even includes people like you. -"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
Respect??? As my father got into one of his beat-down sessions he would often bellow out repeatedly "I demand respect" as the buckle end of his belt tore into my flesh. Fuck him! He NEVER got it because he NEVER earned it. It cannot be demanded -- only earned. When he became too feeble to beat me I would tell him just that every chance I got until he died. Respect is a two way street.
I am always courteous when I encounter LEOs on the job but not one of them ever gets my respect unless they earn it through mutual understanding. Fortunately I rarely had any real problems with them because I have always been a responsible citizen -- and I have the proper skin tone.
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
Used to watch some of the dumbass ,reality (sort of ) Cop shows ,there was usually a skin headed swat team wannabe ,bellowing commands at a poor dimwitted young kid ,who really couldnt process the fast orders .Case in point "GET YOUR HANDS DOWN!" well thats just a natural response for the young punks when threatened and believe me sometimes the uniform intimidates (the SS uniform was said to be one of the most intimidating ) Not to mention the unncessary high speed chases( never been a car made that can outrun a radio) amd I still cant believe how many officers it took to put Rodney King down,I am sorry but I like Matt Dillon and Andy of Mayberry . I dont like Mr Hardass ,in normal circumstances .
Jarlaxle wrote:Treat police like you would any other armed gangbanger. Also, never speak to or interact with them under any circumstances. The only things you EVER say to police are, "This interaction is being recorded and saved off-site in real time," and "Am I being detained or am I free to go?"
Screw you, Jarlaxle. I treat the police like I treat everybody else — with courtesy and respect until such time as they prove to me that they do not merit such consideration.
And that even includes people like you. -"BB"-
When black boys are born
We mothers kiss their faces
Twirl our fingers in their curls
Put them in carriers on our chest
Show them to the world
Our tiny black princes
And when they start school
As early as 3
We mothers
Place huge back packs on their backs
And we slowly fill them with bricks
Etched with tools
Tattooed with truths
Hoping to save them
Don't talk back
Don't get angry
Say yes ma'am
Say no sir
Don't fight
Even if they hit you first
Especially if they are white
Do your best
Better than best
Be still
Work hardest
BRICK
They get a little older
And we add more
Keep your hands out of your pockets
Don't look them in the eye
Don't challenge
Don't put your manhood before your life
Just get home safe
Don't walk alone
Don't walk with too many boys
Don't walk towards police
Don't walk away from police
Don't buy candy or ice tea
Don't put your hood up
I'll drive you
I'll pick you up
You can't be free
Don't go wandering
Come home to me
BRICK
They get a little older
And we add more
Understand you are a threat
Standing still
Breathing
Your degrees are not a shield
Your job is not a shield
Your salary makes you a target
Your car makes you a target
Your nice house in a nice neighborhood
Makes you a target
Don't put your ego before your safety
Don't talk back
Don't look them in the eye
Get home to your wife
Your son
BRICK
They weigh them down.
This knowing
Of having to carry the load
Of their blackness
the world hasn't changed
The straps just dig deeper into their skin
Their backs ache
But their souls don't break
Our beautiful black men
When you say to me
All lives matter
I simply ask
Will your son die with the world on his back
Mine will
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
— God@The Tweet of God
Without opportunity and understanding there will most certainly be darkness and despair creeping around every corner. Fifty-two years after the signing of the Civil Rights Act we are still burning.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Maybe ol' Marty actually meant his great-great-grandchildren.
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
When I was in grad school 20 years ago I taught the writings of MLK Jr. as a method of teaching rhetoric to my writing students; I briefly entertained a dream of tracking down attendees at the Dream speech and doing a 50 year anniversary book on how the Dream had unfolded.
Of course that time has passed already and here we are with protesters in the streets decrying the regular murder of black men by police in simple traffic stops.
I'm finding my middle age to be very bleak in terms of feeling any hopefulness for the future that lies ahead for my nieces and nephews.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
