Fleet Week Over San Francisco

kmccune · Post by **kmccune** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:56 am

Is a f-22 ,that much bigger?that must be a camera trick,both are beautiful aircraft-Why dont we have more Raptors?

Bicycle Bill · Post by **Bicycle Bill** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:10 pm

kmccune wrote:Is a f-22 ,that much bigger?that must be a camera trick,both are beautiful aircraft-Why dont we have more Raptors?

P-51:
   length 32 feet 3 inches
   height 13 feet 4 inches (ground to tip of propeller when parked)
   wingspan 37 feet
   total wing area 235 feet²
   max takeoff weight 12,000 pounds
F-22:
   length 62 feet 1 inch
   height 16 feet 8 inches (ground to tip of vertical stabilizers when parked)
   wingspan 44 feet 6 inches
   total wing area 840 feet²
   max takeoff weight 83,500 pounds

So yeah, it is twice as long but not that much bigger elsewhere; I think it's the fact that the modified delta-wing on the F-22 gives it such a huge amount of wing area as well as the height of the twin tails that makes it look so much more massive.

Another way you can tell it's not a camera trick or two photos laid on top of each other is to look into the cockpits and compare the size of one pilot to the other.  They're both about the same.

-"BB"-

dales · Post by **dales** » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:04 pm

kmccune wrote:Is a f-22 ,that much bigger?that must be a camera trick,both are beautiful aircraft-Why dont we have more Raptors?

Because the DOD wants to concentrate on the F-35.

RayThom · Post by **RayThom** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:43 am

Dales image of these two planes seemed somewhat photo-shopped given the closeness of this maneuver. I then find out that the F-22 can operate at a very minimal speed as long as the pilot is very skilled and could probably stay aloft at 80 to 110 knots. So if the P-51 holds an easy 375 knots the F-22 pilot could pull up long enough for such a dramatic Kodak moment.

Here are a few more pics from a similar fly-by:

dales · Post by **dales** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:40 am

BEAUTIFUL!

Great fall weather!

datsunaholic · Post by **datsunaholic** » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:25 am

We have had the same type of legacy duos at Seafair (in Seattle) and Tri-Cities during the boat races. There really is a huge size difference between a P-51 and a modern fighter jet. I remember my Dad's comments when they had a P-51 & F-16 performing that maneuver- he said the P-51 was probably flying flat out and the F-16 was going damn near as slow as it could. But there is actually a pretty good operating envelope overlap. It's too bad he never got to see the P-51 + F-22 flight; the F-22 was his "baby" as he had worked on it in the test instrumentation department for over a decade after leaving the B-2 program, having actually gotten hands-on into the wings and other parts during its development (he was a drafter, but did stress instrumentation layouts for the test program).

Jarlaxle · Post by **Jarlaxle** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:48 am

A P51 will handily top 400MPH in level flight...I recall that is max-range cruising speed for an F16.

dales · Post by **dales** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:56 pm

Image result for f-16 specs

F-16 Specifications

Length

49.3 ft / 15.03 m

Weight empty 20,300 lb / 9,207.9 kg
Maximum take-off weight 48,000 lb / 21,772 kg
Internal fuel 5,920 lb / 2,685.2 kg
Speed 1,500 mph (Mach 2 at altitude)

dales · Post by **dales** » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:45 am

According to the article, this was NOT photo-shopped.

kmccune · Post by **kmccune** » Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:17 am

Good replies ,the old piston engine aircraft were probably a little harder to hit at treetop level ,I dont imagine really close to the ground you could go a lot faster in a jet ?
Its kinda funny ,but guess what a f-22 looks like head on and level(the prototype YF more so )

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