Well as I said, I would not take this chance with Trump--the stakes are far higher than even could have been imagined with W. IMHO, Trump is the worst candidate (at least since Wallace) for president that I think can think of, and there are few people I would not vote for rather than him--even those I disagree vehemently with, like Cruz. so yes, when the stakes are this high, I do not disagree with you--at other times, I personally believe we have to vote our politics, and not just vote for one of the two candidates offered by the major parties; indeed, IMHO this is imperative unless we are to lose the differences of opinion on important issues.
So yes, I take my vote very seriously as well, and consider the entire situation before I choose who I will exercise it on behalf of and why.
As for my friend, he can speak for himself. I don't agree with him, but I also do not think he is a bigot. And FWIW, while we do not agree on politics, we can have discussions on or our views--often heated--and still remain friends. Would that many others could do that.
CP--sadly I have to agree.
anecdotal observations
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datsunaholic
- Posts: 2673
- Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:53 am
- Location: The Wet Coast
Re: anecdotal observations
Most of the people I know that are voting for Trump are not bigots, misogynists, or in any way horrible people. Misguided, maybe, but in almost every case they are so anti-Democrat they wouldn't vote for a Democratic president regardless of the Republican candidate.
Some are current or former Military. They've been led to believe that the Democrats don't care about the military, and some believe that the US Military should be the strongest military in the world, able to take on any and all enemies simultaneously. They believe our Military has been gutted by the Democrats (and refuse to believe the facts that the huge post-cold war drawdown started during a REPUBLICAN term, Bill Clinton simply didn't reverse the trend so it was "his fault"). They believe we should still have 350 B-52s, 16 Aircraft Carriers, thousands of nukes, and a standing Army 3 times its current size. They think Trump will bring that back. And, some are utterly convinced the Democrats want to take away their guns, and they want as many firearms as they can get. "Happiness is a belt fed weapon".
Some are extremely religious. They've been led to believe the Democrats are killing our babies, causing families to fall apart due to the erosion of marriage, and allowing our country to fall into secular/athiest hands- which the most devout believe is a sign of the apocalypse. They believe the Republicans stand for Christian values, regardless of the track records of many Republicans in that regard, because 'the Democrats are worse". They've been led by their churches to believe this.
But most of my Republican friends have simply latched on to one single bullet point, a single message. Whether that be gun control, abortion, school prayer, Obamacare, immigration, social security, voter fraud, what have you- they have ONE belief that trumps (pun intended) every other belief or opinion that they may have, and they are going to follow the party that says they support that opinion. To the point that they have become indoctrinated to the party line on everything else. Nothing else matters. I've met a few Democrats who are likewise party-indoctrinated, but I tend to not hang out with a particularly liberal crowd, so most Democrats I know don't always toe the party line on every single issue.
Even my more Moderate Republican friends won't vote for Hillary because they think she's a crook and while they don't particularly like Trump, they think she's worse. My "centrist" friends feel the opposite- they don't like Hillary but think Trump is far worse. Me, I'm not particularly "Pro Hillary", but I pretty much despise Trump, I've despised him since I first heard of him in the early 1990s, and my opinion of him has only gotten worse. I wish there was a viable 3rd party candidate, but neither Stein nor Johnson are particularly qualified, and Johnson seems to have very little grasp on world politics- though he's about as qualified as GWB, who I thought was the worst President in my lifetime (and I was born in the Nixon administration), but Trump makes Bush Jr look like a political hero.
In any case, it matters little. No one can change my vote- I dropped my ballot off yesterday afternoon at a local ballot box because I didn't feel like paying $0.69 in postage. While it cost more in gas to drive down to the drop box at the library in town, I would have had to go to the Post Office anyway to get exact postage (or put 2 1st class stamps on it) and I simply combined a trip anyway. No polling places in this State- it's all by mail.
Some are current or former Military. They've been led to believe that the Democrats don't care about the military, and some believe that the US Military should be the strongest military in the world, able to take on any and all enemies simultaneously. They believe our Military has been gutted by the Democrats (and refuse to believe the facts that the huge post-cold war drawdown started during a REPUBLICAN term, Bill Clinton simply didn't reverse the trend so it was "his fault"). They believe we should still have 350 B-52s, 16 Aircraft Carriers, thousands of nukes, and a standing Army 3 times its current size. They think Trump will bring that back. And, some are utterly convinced the Democrats want to take away their guns, and they want as many firearms as they can get. "Happiness is a belt fed weapon".
Some are extremely religious. They've been led to believe the Democrats are killing our babies, causing families to fall apart due to the erosion of marriage, and allowing our country to fall into secular/athiest hands- which the most devout believe is a sign of the apocalypse. They believe the Republicans stand for Christian values, regardless of the track records of many Republicans in that regard, because 'the Democrats are worse". They've been led by their churches to believe this.
But most of my Republican friends have simply latched on to one single bullet point, a single message. Whether that be gun control, abortion, school prayer, Obamacare, immigration, social security, voter fraud, what have you- they have ONE belief that trumps (pun intended) every other belief or opinion that they may have, and they are going to follow the party that says they support that opinion. To the point that they have become indoctrinated to the party line on everything else. Nothing else matters. I've met a few Democrats who are likewise party-indoctrinated, but I tend to not hang out with a particularly liberal crowd, so most Democrats I know don't always toe the party line on every single issue.
Even my more Moderate Republican friends won't vote for Hillary because they think she's a crook and while they don't particularly like Trump, they think she's worse. My "centrist" friends feel the opposite- they don't like Hillary but think Trump is far worse. Me, I'm not particularly "Pro Hillary", but I pretty much despise Trump, I've despised him since I first heard of him in the early 1990s, and my opinion of him has only gotten worse. I wish there was a viable 3rd party candidate, but neither Stein nor Johnson are particularly qualified, and Johnson seems to have very little grasp on world politics- though he's about as qualified as GWB, who I thought was the worst President in my lifetime (and I was born in the Nixon administration), but Trump makes Bush Jr look like a political hero.
In any case, it matters little. No one can change my vote- I dropped my ballot off yesterday afternoon at a local ballot box because I didn't feel like paying $0.69 in postage. While it cost more in gas to drive down to the drop box at the library in town, I would have had to go to the Post Office anyway to get exact postage (or put 2 1st class stamps on it) and I simply combined a trip anyway. No polling places in this State- it's all by mail.
Death is Nature's way of telling you to slow down.
Re: anecdotal observations
Who the fuck is STILL repeating this blatant lie?? JFC, I can't believe the hateful anti-woman trash continues to spew from the head Trumpanzee and instead of giving a shit about it, the criticism is STILL that woman are voting for HRC because she is a woman? Do you people not see how that belittles woman and attempts to minimize the validity of their votes?Econoline wrote:I really doubt whether anyone is voting for Hillary *JUST* because she's female, without also agreeing with some or most of her policy proposals. Do you know anyone like that? I don't.
No, what's actually going on is that the hateful ones are voting for Trump because he is a MAN.
Thank god, that by the end of the day on 11/8, there will be more intelligent people voting than the hateful ones.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: anecdotal observations
I watch every trump rally that I can, and I have observed....
...that about half of the people in attendance are female.....
....I also have observed that he has had tens of thousands of people attend these rallies for over a year....
...this happens three times a day, almost every day, for over a year.
the percentage of women at these rallies has increased monthly, consistently, for the last year.
I think that he could fill football stadiums, everyday, everywhere, if he so wished to do.
I hate to mention this, since the stress seems to be getting to some people and their emotions seem to be overriding their logical thought processes.
attacking trump, and his supporters has been a losing strategy from the start. as I have stated many times, you have to offer something better to defeat him.
it seems that Hillary has nothing to offer except pie in the sky promises and venomous spoutings.
what an uninspiring and hateful campaign she has run.....
...that about half of the people in attendance are female.....
....I also have observed that he has had tens of thousands of people attend these rallies for over a year....
...this happens three times a day, almost every day, for over a year.
the percentage of women at these rallies has increased monthly, consistently, for the last year.
I think that he could fill football stadiums, everyday, everywhere, if he so wished to do.
I hate to mention this, since the stress seems to be getting to some people and their emotions seem to be overriding their logical thought processes.
attacking trump, and his supporters has been a losing strategy from the start. as I have stated many times, you have to offer something better to defeat him.
it seems that Hillary has nothing to offer except pie in the sky promises and venomous spoutings.
what an uninspiring and hateful campaign she has run.....
Re: anecdotal observations
wow, datsunaholic, that was a thoughtful and honest post....
I could add to it by describing the mtivations of blue collar, hard hat wearing, builder types, but I have already done so, ad nauseum, without getting thru the fog that hides reality from many people here....
...I will repeat that trump is a vehicle, a messenger if you will...
I don t expect him to live, I believe he will be killed by the powers that be.
you don t have to fear trump, but you had better watch out for who comes after him if the messenger is killed.
better to heed the message, I think...
"a loud trumpeting was heard across the land....."
I could add to it by describing the mtivations of blue collar, hard hat wearing, builder types, but I have already done so, ad nauseum, without getting thru the fog that hides reality from many people here....
...I will repeat that trump is a vehicle, a messenger if you will...
I don t expect him to live, I believe he will be killed by the powers that be.
you don t have to fear trump, but you had better watch out for who comes after him if the messenger is killed.
better to heed the message, I think...
"a loud trumpeting was heard across the land....."
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Burning Petard
- Posts: 4596
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:35 pm
- Location: Near Bear, Delaware
Re: anecdotal observations
it seems that THE DONALD has nothing to offer except pie in the sky promises and venomous spoutiings
What do you call this mythological wall that is gonna make America great again? What do you call his steady pronouncement that he can fix everything by talking about it (making deals). The Donald's entire career strategy has been to make deals and then renege on them, leaving others with a hand full of worthless contracts. He says he sacrificed by making successful real estate investments, his equivalent to earning a 3x7 space in Arlington National Cemetary. America is manufacturing twice the goods today than it did in 1984. Those jobs did not go to Mexico, they were replaced by a computer program. The voting system is rigged? Yep. Republican state legislatures rigged it by classic gerrymandering guided by the latest computer programs, census data, and google maps; and voting rules that discourage the number of voters.
snailgate
What do you call this mythological wall that is gonna make America great again? What do you call his steady pronouncement that he can fix everything by talking about it (making deals). The Donald's entire career strategy has been to make deals and then renege on them, leaving others with a hand full of worthless contracts. He says he sacrificed by making successful real estate investments, his equivalent to earning a 3x7 space in Arlington National Cemetary. America is manufacturing twice the goods today than it did in 1984. Those jobs did not go to Mexico, they were replaced by a computer program. The voting system is rigged? Yep. Republican state legislatures rigged it by classic gerrymandering guided by the latest computer programs, census data, and google maps; and voting rules that discourage the number of voters.
snailgate
Re: anecdotal observations
A large amount of those I know who support trump while not necessarily of "uneducated working class" definitely fall into the racist category. The rest mostly fall into the "fuck the system" category. Few fall into the "party unity" group.
I have the most sympathy for the racists most are unaware of or in denial about thier condition
I have the most sympathy for the racists most are unaware of or in denial about thier condition
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: anecdotal observations
well, it seems that someone has been watching too much CNN...., broaden your horizons , man....
you heard about donna brazile, right?
CNN... as crooked as the day is long...
...give me smerconish and the rest can fly to Paris and enjoy the good life....
...oh, that s right..., Paris is lost....
...and Crackpot, calling people names..., horrible names, is the thing that made you lose this election....
you heard about donna brazile, right?
CNN... as crooked as the day is long...
...give me smerconish and the rest can fly to Paris and enjoy the good life....
...oh, that s right..., Paris is lost....
...and Crackpot, calling people names..., horrible names, is the thing that made you lose this election....
Re: anecdotal observations
They are. I have heard it and they are family.
Out of curiosity what would you call someone who expresses dissatisfaction of living in his childhood home because it's getting awfully "dark" around there?
Out of curiosity what would you call someone who expresses dissatisfaction of living in his childhood home because it's getting awfully "dark" around there?
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: anecdotal observations
These are people that are reacting favorably to each and every "dog whistle" your candidate throws out.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: anecdotal observations
that depends...
is he upset because the people are black or are there gang and drug elements moving into the area?
if he is upset because the quality of life is lessening or does he just hate blacks?
if it is the former I would not judge him on an offhand comment, people say things that they don t mean when they are upset or afraid or stressed out..., they even say bad things to people they love in times of strife.
is it right? no, but it doesn t make you an irredeemable racist.
or maybe he just hates blacks..., I dunno, never met the guy...
is he upset because the people are black or are there gang and drug elements moving into the area?
if he is upset because the quality of life is lessening or does he just hate blacks?
if it is the former I would not judge him on an offhand comment, people say things that they don t mean when they are upset or afraid or stressed out..., they even say bad things to people they love in times of strife.
is it right? no, but it doesn t make you an irredeemable racist.
or maybe he just hates blacks..., I dunno, never met the guy...
Re: anecdotal observations
You are the one that put "irredeemable" in there. I just state fact
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Re: anecdotal observations
ok, take irredeemable out of it.
it was unimportant to the post anyway, I m sorry that I added it.
what about the rest?
it was unimportant to the post anyway, I m sorry that I added it.
what about the rest?
Re: anecdotal observations
He (the one that makes the particular comment with a grin on his face) is someone who has historically had more run ins with the law than any of the people he complains about. In fact of all of the people in my family he would probably be honest about the charge. It just doesn't enter into the life of the rest of my family for them to honestly address the question. In thier life they are likly never to meet the critical mass of ethnic diversity enough to realize the inherent lie that the "ones" they know and like are "just" some of the "good ones".
The charge of racism in this county has become so charged that it inhibits ones ability to come to terms with the simple truth of ones own prejudice.
The charge of racism in this county has become so charged that it inhibits ones ability to come to terms with the simple truth of ones own prejudice.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
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Bicycle Bill
- Posts: 9796
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:10 pm
- Location: Living in a suburb of Berkeley on the Prairie along with my Yellow Rose of Texas
Re: anecdotal observations
No in-person voting at all on Election Day, and everything has to go by US Mail?datsunaholic wrote:No one can change my vote- I dropped my ballot off yesterday afternoon at a local ballot box because I didn't feel like paying $0.69 in postage. While it cost more in gas to drive down to the drop box at the library in town, I would have had to go to the Post Office anyway to get exact postage (or put 2 1st class stamps on it) and I simply combined a trip anyway. No polling places in this State- it's all by mail.
Considering some of the reports of the way the mail gets handled, it doesn't sound like the best way to do things.
****please note, before any resident mailman lights his torch, sharpens up his pitchfork, and starts to come after me ——
IN NO WAY am I belittling the high standards of the USPS and the vast majority of its employees, nor am I claiming that this is a common occurrence.
I realize that these are isolated situations, anomalies, and unsanctioned acts by an individual, and affects only a miniscule fraction of the total amount of mail handled by the USPS. As a general rule, ALL mail will go through and be delivered to the correct address and in a timely manner.
BUT — that doesn't matter if it's your letter to Grandma or your pension check that winds up in the dumpster or the drainage ditch. Same goes for your ballot.
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
Re: anecdotal observations
well CP, I have been exposed to ethnic diversity out the ying-yang.
I grew up in a completely mixed neighborhood and worked with every nationality under the sun.
I can only speak for myself when I say that color doesn t really matter to me. we all have some prejudices, but welcome to the real world.
once I could have said that I didn t care what religion you were too, but , honestly, I ve developed a distaste for islam since they ve been killing so many people...
I m sure that there are some "good ones"..., they should leave the faith, I think...
but if you are a Sikh or a hindu or a Buddhist, I m fine with that. I don t mind animists...
jews are fine, but they should get off that old testament stuff before it is too late
(just kidding..., kinda)
I like white folks too, that makes me a racist to some.....
who cares. I m kind to my neighbors and help them when I can, I give vegetables to all who want them....
my neighbors are diverse, some are from Uruguay, some are black, some are white, some are mixed...., currently the white ones are the most concerning to me..
the Mexicans across the street aren t too friendly..., must be the trump sign.....
I grew up in a completely mixed neighborhood and worked with every nationality under the sun.
I can only speak for myself when I say that color doesn t really matter to me. we all have some prejudices, but welcome to the real world.
once I could have said that I didn t care what religion you were too, but , honestly, I ve developed a distaste for islam since they ve been killing so many people...
I m sure that there are some "good ones"..., they should leave the faith, I think...
but if you are a Sikh or a hindu or a Buddhist, I m fine with that. I don t mind animists...
jews are fine, but they should get off that old testament stuff before it is too late
(just kidding..., kinda)I like white folks too, that makes me a racist to some.....
who cares. I m kind to my neighbors and help them when I can, I give vegetables to all who want them....
my neighbors are diverse, some are from Uruguay, some are black, some are white, some are mixed...., currently the white ones are the most concerning to me..
the Mexicans across the street aren t too friendly..., must be the trump sign.....
Re: anecdotal observations
The title of this thread is "anecdotal" observations and those are Minsk don't pretend to talk for anyone outside my experience. I can give you a general idea of racism and how it works in the metro Detroit area (especially the Northern Suburbs) and I suspect it's similar to other northern metropolitan areas but I don't pretend to be an expert.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
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Econoline
- Posts: 9607
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
- Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans
Re: anecdotal observations
Minsk?
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
— God @The Tweet of God
— God @The Tweet of God
Re: anecdotal observations
yeah, I m no expert on cities....
I would be very unhappy in a big city.
the closest thing that I have experienced was a summer above the restaurant I worked at in OC Maryland in '85..... too noisey.
Delmar is a small town and I m planning on getting out of it and into the country ASAP... got a couple of irons in the fire..., fingers crossed...
the crack era in Salisbury MD was pretty rough and I spent some scary times in the hood back then...
it was very dangerous.
all the towns and even out in the country we had crack markets, open air, just like in the movies.
they seemed to go away after Clinton left office, but they sure as hell began with Reagan s last term and went thru bush sr s term..
eta- yeah, I didn t get minsk either... Rochelle Rochelle?
I would be very unhappy in a big city.
the closest thing that I have experienced was a summer above the restaurant I worked at in OC Maryland in '85..... too noisey.
Delmar is a small town and I m planning on getting out of it and into the country ASAP... got a couple of irons in the fire..., fingers crossed...
the crack era in Salisbury MD was pretty rough and I spent some scary times in the hood back then...
it was very dangerous.
all the towns and even out in the country we had crack markets, open air, just like in the movies.
they seemed to go away after Clinton left office, but they sure as hell began with Reagan s last term and went thru bush sr s term..
eta- yeah, I didn t get minsk either... Rochelle Rochelle?
Re: anecdotal observations
Ding!Econoline wrote:Minsk?
Alex Trebek: Joe Guy?
Me: What is the capital of the Republic of Belarus?
Alex: Yes...
Me: Okay, I'll take Anecdotal Observations for $400.00 please.....
Last edited by Joe Guy on Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.