Polling numbers and predictions

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Long Run
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Long Run »

Bicycle Bill wrote: How can that be?  How would someone know that you've voted?
The County Elections keeps track of who has returned a ballot and that is public information (the ballots are sealed and I do not believe they start counting until election day). We have about a two week voting time period when the ballots are mailed to registered voters. In addition to using the U.S. Mail, there are also drop boxes at various locations (one of which I used).

An interesting circumstance of having the ballot drop off locations is that, whereas under traditional voting the late counted absentee ballots trend conservative, under vote by mail/drop-off the late counted ballots trend liberal.

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Crackpot
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Crackpot »

Oldr

Those are some of the most reliable and hardest to compromise voting machines. We have the same here unfortunately they're getting old and will likly soon be replaced.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

Crackpot wrote:Oldr

Those are some of the most reliable and hardest to compromise voting machines. We have the same here unfortunately they're getting old and will likly soon be replaced.
That's what I heard. I also heard replacement parts were hard to come by when they did break. I guess hte company who built them went out of business? Tool and Die a lost art? (my dad was a tool and die guy).
Also it was no big deal to change a vote if you flipped a lever incorrectly as long as it was before you pulled the curtain lever open. On the "new" paper ballots, it's a hassle. Go get another ballot. Watch them destroy the old one, sign that the ballot was destroyed then get a new one and get back in line and wait for another "cardboard encased podium" and hope the Sharpie didn't dry out. (didn't happen to me but to my in-laws) :loon

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RayThom
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Polling Numbers And Predictions

Post by RayThom »

It's quite obvious that the early voting system in God's waiting room is rigged. The Donald will not abide.
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Gob
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Gob »

I voted electronically, for the first time, last election here.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Long Run
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Long Run »

Hillary Clinton, like President Obama four years ago, has spent a lot of time with a chance of winning the election that is somewhere between 60 and 80 percent in our forecast. Right now, she’s squarely in the middle of that range, with a 68 percent chance according to our polls-only model and 67 percent according to polls-plus.

I’ve found that probabilities in the 70 percent range can be especially difficult to write about, because there’s the possibility of a misinterpretation in either direction. On the one hand, in a 70-30 race, you can usually cherry-pick your way to calling the race a tossup without that much effort, even when it really isn’t. We often saw that occur in 2012, when reporters and commentators consistently characterized the election as too close to call despite a fairly steady lead for Obama in swing-state polls.

On the other hand, a 70-30 race indicates that the bulk of the evidence lines up on one side of the case — in this case, that Clinton rather than Donald Trump will probably be elected president. But people can get carried away, dismiss contradictory evidence, and take a 70 percent chance to be far more of a sure thing than it really is. This year, we’ve spent a lot more time pushing back against people who seem to think Clinton has the race in the bag than we did with Obama in 2012, even though the chances of both have been similar. For most of the election, our model has seen the race as being more uncertain than in 2012, and has therefore given a better chance to the underdog (Trump) than other statistical models have. I suspect we’ve also been more bullish on Trump’s chances than the conventional wisdom has — or at least the conventional wisdom in the BosNYWash corridor — although that’s harder to quantify.1

Wednesday was one of those glass-half-empty, glass-half-full days, where the same data — and there was a lot of it, with dozens of new swing-state polls — could be looked at in very different ways. On the one hand, if you thought the race was a toss-up (as some national tracking polls have it) the data convincingly argued otherwise, with Clinton holding onto leads in her “firewall” states, which are sufficient to win the Electoral College. On the other hand, Clinton’s leads are narrower than they were a few weeks ago, and any further tightening — or a modest polling error in Trump’s favor — could put her campaign in jeopardy. Furthermore, there’s a lot of disagreement in the polls, which speaks to the uncertainty in the race.

Here’s all the data — every swing-state poll we’ve added since yesterday’s Election Update — in handy chart form. It includes the latest editions of the state tracking polls from SurveyMonkey and the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (which are conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, an affiliate of Rasmussen Reports).
silver-election-update-1102-micah

The good news for Clinton jumps out in the chart. She led in seven of eight live-caller polls — and 22 of 23 polls overall — in the states within her firewall.

But some of her leads are tenuous, especially in Pennsylvania and — although the polls wildly disagree there — Michigan. And now and then a poll will crop up showing Trump competitive or even leading in a state Clinton thought she’d put to rest: There was one such poll today in Virginia, for example. That’s not to say Trump is likely to win Pennsylvania or (especially) Virginia. But he only needs to break through in one state to broach Clinton’s firewall, whether in Pennsylvania or Michigan or New Hampshire or Colorado.

Outside her firewall, meanwhile, Clinton isn’t assured of much of anything. She got a bad set of polls in Nevada today, for example, and Florida and North Carolina are so close that Florida was split exactly 50-50 in a set of 10,000 simulations we ran at one point today. (There’s an 8 percent chance of a recount in Florida or another decisive state, incidentally.2) So if Clinton were to fail in any of her firewall states, she doesn’t have particularly reassuring backup options.

Overall, the swing-state polls were about in line with what the model expected. Clinton’s win probability fell slightly on the day, in fact, although it was as a result of her continuously mediocre numbers in national tracking polls. The state polls were a wash in our model.

What’s harder to tell is whether Trump is still gaining ground, the race has stabilized, or if Clinton has even begun to rebound slightly. After several very good days of polling for Trump, today’s numbers were more equivocal. And remember that there’s a lag between a news event, when a state is polled, and when those polls hit our forecast. For example, if Clinton got especially bad numbers on Friday and Saturday after the FBI story broke, but has since recovered, we might not discover it until this weekend.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ele ... -election/

rubato
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by rubato »

If Trump gets elected the GOP who created him are fucked for the next 20 years.

So its not all bad.


yrs,
rubato

Big RR
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Big RR »

Just the GOP? No, if he is elected I'd say the entire country is fucked for the next 20 years.

And I see no hint of good in that whatsoever, even if it will hurt the GOP.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Lord Jim »

I have to say I'm not in my Happy Place on this election... :?

A week ago, for the first time, I was beginning to feel somewhat comfortable about how it was going...

But since then we've had the Comey letter, the Obamacare jackpot that millions of Americans have found themselves hit with, and Donald Trump managing to act like a semi-serious Presidential candidate...

The combination of these three things has moved the election both in national polls and battleground states from a comfortable Clinton win to a near Clinton win, and even more disturbing, if the momentum trend lines continue in the same direction the next few days as it has for the past few, the horrifying prospect of Trump victory becomes even more possible...

The volatility can be easily explained by the fact that we have the two most disliked and distrusted Presidential nominees since polling numbers started being compiled...

When voters don't like either candidate it doesn't take much to push some of them one way or the other...
Last edited by Lord Jim on Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RayThom
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Polling Numbers And Predictions

Post by RayThom »

LJ sez:
I have to say I'm not in my Happy Place on this election...
A week ago, for the first time, I was beginning to feel somewhat comfortable about how it was going...
But since then we've had the Comey letter, the Obamacare jackpot that millions of Americans have found themselves hit with, and Donald Trump managing to act like a semi-serious Presidential candidate...
On the bright side... I read where 31 million early votes have been cast. That's roughly a quarter of the total expected turnout. Supposedly early voters are "mostly" Democrats. And if Hillary has a 1-2% margin, and grabs just a few swing states (which appears to be 'almost' certain) then I feel she'll squeak by with a few more electoral votes than needed (272). The popular vote is going to be really close and that's where Drumpf is going to make a case for a rigged election.

This debacle sure ain't going to be pretty, however. I see much violence to come on November 8th. I just hope we treat the next four years as a "teachable moment" and 2020 brings us back to our senses with real candidates not taking care of themselves.

In the end, and sadly -- in four days we will get the president we deserve.

God Bless America!
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Crackpot
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Crackpot »

I vote tonight
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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RayThom
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Polling numbers and predictions

Post by RayThom »

Crackpot wrote:I vote tonight
Good luck... do the right thing. And peace be with you.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by BoSoxGal »

I just tried to early vote, I left an hour early for work because the polling place is on the way. The line was out the door and halfway down the block, so I had to go to work early instead. I will go to the polling place on Tuesday instead, and maybe my cousins will let me take my little niece along for that historic experience.


It's no secret that this election is the most emotionally wrought in modern history, and the levels of anxiety, stress, depression are skyrocketing in Americans all over the country. Something I just thought about today; what will the suicide rate be in November/December? :?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Big RR
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Big RR »

that's where Drumpf is going to make a case for a rigged election.
Of course that didn't work for Gore, and he won the popular vote. the popular vote really doesn't matter all that much in our system, which is what the founding fathers wanted when they drafted the Constitution (hell, the people didn't even vote for their senators at the beginning); an original intent promoter like the Donald will no doubt understand that, or people can point out the irony of his position :roll: .

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Guinevere
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Guinevere »

I voted on the first day of early voting, half an hour after the polls opened. I've wanted to cast my ballot for HRC for President for a long long time, I couldn't wait another second.

I have to be in court on Tuesday, so I'm not going to be in NH (or even in MA), but hoping to get there this weekend to do my part.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

I see much violence to come on November 8th.
Paid for by the DNC?
:mrgreen:

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Lord Jim
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Lord Jim »

A glimmer of improvement:
Clinton Rebounds on Enthusiasm; Trump Slips in a Still-Tight Race

Support for Donald Trump has slipped to its lowest in 10 days and enthusiasm for Hillary Clinton has recovered from its apparent damage by the latest FBI email investigation. Yet the race between them remains close in the latest ABC News/Washington Post tracking poll.

Forty-seven percent of likely voters support Clinton with 43 percent for Trump in the latest four-night results. Whether it holds is an open question: Monday night’s results, the best for Clinton in the series, will roll out tomorrow.

While the shifts have been within the survey’s margin of sampling error, the contest has gone from +1 Trump, 45-46 percent, Oct. 30, to +4 Clinton today. Trump’s support now is numerically its lowest since Oct. 25.

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Other shifts, all slight, are in sync. With the controversial FBI email announcement fading back a bit, Clinton has regrouped on strong enthusiasm -- up 6 points in just two days, and now essentially even with Trump for the first time since before the Comey letter.

Moreover, Clinton’s deficit on who’s more honest and trustworthy has eased in this poll, produced for ABC by Langer Research Associates. It was Trump +8 points immediately post-Comey, Trump’s first significant lead on this attribute, but has narrowed to a non-significant Trump +4 now.


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These results signal how, with so much reluctant support for both unpopular candidates, vote intention and preferences are vulnerable to events. [that's why this thing will likely remain a nail biter right down to election day :roll: ] Trump suffered after the height of sexual misconduct allegations against him, then recovered; initial signs of damage to Clinton after the FBI announcement, now, likewise, seem to be pulling back.

There’s a little time for further influence, but not for 30 percent of likely voters: They’ve already voted, by 50-44 percent, Clinton-Trump, in the ABC/Post tracking estimate.

Enthusiasm

Enthusiasm has followed a far more variable path in Clinton’s case than in Trump’s. As few as 36 percent of her supporters, in mid-September, were very enthusiastic about their choice. That advanced to 52 percent by the start of tracking, apparently motivated by controversy over Trump’s sexual conduct. Clinton’s strong enthusiasm then lost 7 points after the Comey letter announcing a renewed email investigation, only to rebound now.

Strong enthusiasm for Trump among his supporters has followed a steadier path recently, after peaking at 55 percent, in mid-September and sliding to 47 percent three weeks later. It’s held between 49 and 53 percent since.

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Support for Trump has weakened a bit among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents, down to 82 percent support in this group, near his low; 6 percent are going to Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate. Clinton, by contrast, has support from 87 percent of leaned Democrats, with just 2 percent to Johnson.

By region, Clinton is unusually competitive in the South, 46-45 percent, a region Mitt Romney won by 10 points in 2012 and John McCain won by 9 in 2008. Women and minorities are boosting there. (Bill Clinton ran about evenly in the South with his opponents in 1992 and ’96.) It’s also close in the Midwest, 43-46 percent, Clinton-Trump; Obama won this region by 10 points in 2008, and ran evenly there with Romney in 2012.

Notable, too, is that Trump’s advantage among white women who don’t hold a four-year college degree has advanced to 29-63 percent, :shrug Clinton-Trump, his widest margin in this group since mid-October, and even numerically exceeding his margin among his mainstay group, non-college white men, 29-59 percent.

Clinton, for her part, has a 25-point lead among college-educated white women, 58-33 percent, while the contest among college-educated white men is essentially a tie. In all, it’s a 38-52 percent race, Clinton-Trump, among whites, while it’s 75-17 percent among nonwhites.

Also of note is the battleground suburbs, now 47-43 percent overall, with Clinton boosted by suburban women, 54-38 percent.

Finally, given its size, the tracking poll -- now with 4,613 interviews of likely voters since Oct. 20 -- can be used to evaluate preferences in groups too small for analysis in most surveys. One such group is nonwhites who are neither black nor Hispanic, 6 percent of likely voters. After a lukewarm result for Clinton earlier in tracking, they’ve moved to 62-28 percent support for her, nearer where they were for Obama in the 2012 exit poll.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/black-early-vo ... d=43244196
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Burning Petard
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Burning Petard »

Today Nate Silverman and FiveThirtyEight are reporting ONE poll has the Donald ahead on popular vote-- USC Dornsife/LA Times Trump by 5%.

Interesting to see what actually happens. If the Donald actually ends up with 5% less than Hillary that poll is off by 10% which in modern polling science is pretty bad. The kind of result on the Dewey/Truman election still embarrasses the Chicago Tribune. I think an academic outfit like USC Dornsife would really take a hit. This group has been an outlier among the polls for most of the campaign.

BUT. . . this outfit has been using a different model, claiming to get at the depth of support, not just the breadth. So they could end up making all the conventional polls look obsolete.

snailgate

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Lord Jim
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Re: Polling numbers and predictions

Post by Lord Jim »

The last RCP electoral map with no toss ups has Clinton winning by a whopping 272-266 electoral vote margin...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... s_ups.html
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RayThom
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Polling Numbers And Predictions

Post by RayThom »

Lord Jim wrote:The last RCP electoral map with no toss ups has Clinton winning by a whopping 272-266 electoral vote margin...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... s_ups.html
Yes, that coincides with how I predicted it will end up. Hopefully, and if accurate, it will keep Hillary humble.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16208&p=218890&hilit=272#p218890
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