Infidelity

[BoSoxGal]

Over 50% of both genders admit engaging in infidelity at least once within a marriage or other committed relationship.

Is it ever justified or acceptable? Why or why not?

I'd prefer to see a discussion not enmeshed in religious doctrine, but all perspectives are valued.

[liberty]

As long as they don’t hurt the children I don’t care what they do. Gods does but I don’t. I hope he is not disappointed with me for my attitude and if he is I hope he forgives me.

[datsunaholic]

Having never been in a committed relationship- let alone married, I may not be qualified to speak on the matter, but I do have an opinion.

While I would hope that I would remain faithful, and in fact would prefer to be faithful, I would not require that of a partner. But it would have to be open- not a secret. So, that sounds like I'd want an open relationship, but that's not actually the case. I guess that having been single my whole life and finding it a bit lonely recently has me thinking an open relationship would be better than none at all, but part of that is because I am generally attracted to inappropriate women, or at least not the kind of women that would be attracted to me. And part of that attractiveness is women who are clearly quite a bit more wild than I am, or appear to be.

What I think is wrong is to profess faithfulness and then break it. Hiding infidelity is more damaging in the long run. Relationships are an ongoing negotiation, and nothing is static, but secrets are what kills them.

[rubato]

Over 50% of both genders admit engaging in infidelity at least once within a marriage or other committed relationship.

Is it ever justified or acceptable? Why or why not?

I'd prefer to see a discussion not enmeshed in religious doctrine, but all perspectives are valued.

If you make a commitment to someone it is important to keep it. Always. How could she ever have faith in me if I didn't? How could I ever have faith in her if she didn't? You lose an invaluable and precious thing when you cheat. The loss of innocence in a love relationship is one-directional just as the loss of innocence in the story of eden. You lose something you can never have back. If that is not worth more than the pleasure of a passing fuck you are not fit for marriage and should have the self-knowledge not to lie about it.

If you are unable to make a commitment then it is a lie to pretend.

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Why stand up in front of "god and everybody" and declare your love if you don't mean it? What is the goddamn point? If you are not fit for marriage at 21 then wait until 30.


yrs,
rubato

[Burning Petard]

This is my own fanatical, uncompromising, self-definition: My own honor requires fidelity. My own definition of who/what I am has honesty at its core. If I say I will do something, I must do it. If I say I will do something for the rest of my life, then the choice is made and future opportunities are no dilemma for my choice is already made.

I make no claims that anyone else live by this standard. But I do not trust oath breakers, whatever the oath, promise, contract might be

snailgate

[Joe Guy]

Unless your marriage vows include an infidelity clause that exempts cheating under certain circumstances, it is never acceptable or justified. If you're in a committed relationship and not married, it's not acceptable or justified either, but since you're not married you're not really 100% committed. You're just making it easier to opt out of the relationship because you're an immature wuss who isn't ready to commit to a partner but still expects the other person to be committed.

[Long Run]

I believe this study is more realistic about the numbers (the numbers that Hite reported are absurd).

6/29/2009 @ 12:00AM
Just How Many Spouses Cheat?

Tom Smith, the highly respected academic survey researcher, has this to say about extramarital sex: “There are probably more scientifically worthless ‘facts’ on extramarital relations than on any other facet of human behavior.” Given the relentless coverage of the extramarital affairs of Sen. John Ensign and Gov. Mark Sanford, it’s worth asking: Just how common is this kind of cheating? And, furthermore, do Americans care?

* * *
In a 2006 paper Smith reported: “The best estimates are that about 3% to 4% of currently married people have a sexual partner besides their spouse in a given year and about 15% to 18% of ever-married people have had a sexual partner other than their spouse while married.”

This is a far cry from the claims of some sex researchers like Sherry Hite, who has posited that 70% of women who have been married for five years or more are having affairs.

According to Smith, the proportion of Americans who have ever had an affair rises from 13% among 18- to 29-year-olds to 20% among those in the mid-life-crisis years, from ages 40 to 49. Then the level drops off.

Perhaps extramarital liaisons are more common among the young, Smith speculates, because they haven’t been married long, and they may be more used to multiple sexual partners. Husbands are much more likely than wives to say they are involved in an affair.

When asked whether extramarital sexual relations are always wrong, almost always wrong, wrong only sometimes or not wrong at all, public opinion is uniformly adamant. According to polls, slightly more than 80% of Americans say that extramarital sexual relations are always wrong. The “always wrong” response has actually risen over the past 35 years. In the early 1970s, around 70% of people polled said extramarital sexual relations were always wrong. Today’s stricter attitudes could be a reaction against the steady stream of high-profile revelations about the affairs of public figures. Or perhaps we have retreated from the more freewheeling sexual attitudes of the 1960s and 1970s.

* * *

http://www.forbes.com/2009/06/28/sanfor ... l-sex.html

[Big RR]

Unless your marriage vows include an infidelity clause that exempts cheating under certain circumstances, it is never acceptable or justified. If you're in a committed relationship and not married, it's not acceptable or justified either, but since you're not married you're not really 100% committed. You're just making it easier to opt out of the relationship because you're an immature wuss who isn't ready to commit to a partner but still expects the other person to be committed.

I'm not aware of any marriage vow that mentions infidelity or avoidance thereof; true, the western judeo-christian understanding of marriage does include this admonition, but the vows of love, honor, and obey can admit all manner of different understanding. So long as the two parties are open with each other and do not object, I do not see how infidelity is an abrogation of those vows--polygamy can work because of those same understanding. Of course one sided, secret infidelities are different because that is a betrayal of the trust between the two parties, but while I wouldn't want to be in an open or polygamous relationship, I do think they can work.

[Joe Guy]

I was thinking of a typical wedding vow. Like the one I found here

Do you __________take this woman _________to be your lawfully wedded wife, to have and to hold, in sickness and in heath, in good times and woe, for richer or poorer, keeping yourself solely unto her for as long as you both shall live?

If so, answer " I DO."

[Big RR]

Well if that is in the vow, then you have a point, but it's been a long time since I've heard that phrase (or anything like it) used in religious or civil ceremonies (indeed, the last time I think I heard it the actual wording was "forsaking all others and cleaving solely unto him/her", which gives an idea of when that was. But again, if both parties are in agreement to seek other sexual adventures or engage in group sex, etc., is this being broken? Perhaps in the traditional sense of the two cleaving unto one another and becoming one, but not in the sense of two parties charting their own relationship (perhaps it's not a physical keeping/cleaving, but a keeping of the others good will by only doing what each considers appropriate.

[Joe Guy]

Then are you saying that without the 'solely unto her' phrase, they can cheat and not be breaking a vow? But we're getting sidetracked to some type of technicality. My point is that when you make a vow of marriage you're saying you aren't going to screw around and if you have an understanding that you will have sexual relationships outside of your marriage it should be part of the vow. If not, you're cheating.

That's all....

[Burning Petard]

What is the commitment in a 'civil' marriage, the legal arrangement formalized without any religious entanglements?

My own religious tradition includes the phrase 'for each other and from all others, as long as you both shall live.' I am completely ignorant as to what happens when a couple get the license and goes before a judge to complete it.

snailgate

[Big RR]

Joe--and what I'm saying is that there are many types of relationships and the couple needs to define for themselves what theirs will be. So while many (including myself) subscribe to your traditional view of sexual relations outside of marriage, others do not and I am saying we cannot impose upon them our view of what a marriage should be. So, to return to BSG's first question, if both parties agree to it, I do think it is justified.

I've seen couples where one spouse goes to live with a sick parent for months; this is clearly not the forsaking all others (or leaving ones father and mother mentioned in Genesis), but where both parties are in agreement it works (and where they are not, it does not and often destroys the relationship). IMHO, the same is true for polygamous/polyamorous relationships.

As for the text of the vow, perhaps this is why I haven't heard the forsaking... as much recently, although I honestly think people make those vows without looking closely into what they are saying (just like in the lord's prayer, do people really want god's name "hallowed"--how many can even define hallowed? Or how many know what "begotten not made" means in the Nicene Creed?). And of course, over the course of a marriage a couple may well change their mindsabout what is acceptable.

BP--most civil ceremonies I have been to make the couple declare their intent to marry and that they make the decision freely--beyond that, the vows can vary but ordinarily include some variant of love and honor until death or fore all eternity. I imagine couples could include a "forsaking all others" vow, but I have never heard it.

[MGMcAnick]

I believe this study is more realistic about the numbers (the numbers that Hite reported are absurd).

Thank you for finding that study for us LR. I have always felt that those who state that 50% (or more) cheat are probably among the much smaller percentage who do. I have never had any desire to cheat on Mrs Mc. Why would I ever want to? I took those vows, and I meant them. I'll look at ladies all I want, until they close the lid, but I won't do anything else.

[Joe Guy]

Joe--and what I'm saying is that there are many types of relationships and the couple needs to define for themselves what theirs will be. So while many (including myself) subscribe to your traditional view of sexual relations outside of marriage, others do not and I am saying we cannot impose upon them our view of what a marriage should be. So, to return to BSG's first question, if both parties agree to it, I do think it is justified.

I answered BSG's question based on my assumption that she wasn't talking about a married couple that have agreed to have sex outside of their marriage. If she meant to include people that have agreed to another type of relationship, her question wouldn't make much sense to me.

[BoSoxGal]

http://nymag.com/betamale/2016/05/women ... ences.html

[Bicycle Bill]

I have never been married, and the closest I have been to a relationship was a roughly seven-year period when Katie Barefoot and I were exchanging telephone calls and emails between each other (and occasionally spending time — platonically — in each others' company).  I'll admit it; I was infatuated with her and would have no more thought of 'dating' or spending time with someone else than I would have thought of cutting off my right arm.... and that feeling persists even to this day, almost eight years since the last time we were face-to-face.

So yes, the concept of 'fidelity' is strong with me.  It's a matter of integrity, honor, pride, and respect for my partner.  Were I to have gotten married in my earlier years, I'm sure that I would have never strayed from the straight and narrow path.

-"BB"-

[oldr_n_wsr]

I had an affair. Her name was alcohol. We have since split up and my wife has accepted me back. I will spend the rest of my life making that infidelity up to her.

[RayThom]

I had an affair. Her name was alcohol. We have since split up and my wife has accepted me back. I will spend the rest of my life making that infidelity up to her.

Very good. Own it... and repeat this once a day -- face-to-face.

(Eight more days and I earn my 35 year chip. With help from my higher power I hope I make it.)