My head hurts,

[wesw]

that has been happening for twenty years already.

that is why there are so many precious snowflakes who don t believe in free thought or speech.

better off to read the writings of the nations founders to them and to explain the concept of liberty

[Big RR]

yes , RR, but ALL filibuster rules are just rules and can be changed with a simple majority.

at the present it only applies to certain areas, but with one vote all cloture rules could be changed to a simple majority to end debate.

that is my understanding.

You are right, but then the "nuclear option" Has been around for a long time; it is fairly extraordinary and has not been routinely used, even though a majority could be gotten. somehow, I doubt the republicans would band together to do this for the Trump administration, but time will tell.

[wesw]

yes, RR....

time will tell.

doesn t the possibility of change, fundamental change of our current power structure excite you just a little?

don t you feel even a small current of hope flowing thru the land?

boy, around here the atmosphere of hope is palpable.

...and, just as I felt, and enjoyed, the elation and joy of my black friends and neighbors when Obama was first elected, I now see their fear and dejection. it is written on their faces.

...on some of their faces, at least. some of them are just bursting with smiles. mostly the Christians , of some denominations, and the the guys my age who have lived hard and worked hard. the black youth , generally,are unhappy , from the faces I have seen anyway.

I also see the joy and hope and feeling of belonging that average white folks are feeling and it is good too.

hope.

that is what the old folks at the library are telling holly.

they awoke and felt hope for America again.

exact words one lady uttered to holly.

she felt "hope".

the idea of America is still so important to so many people.

don t you feel just a little bit of pleasant excitement?

[Big RR]

Not really; it's more like dread. Look the voters have spoken, but for the first time in a long time I think we have a complete loose cannon in the white house, a man who I do not believe is up to the job and even more importantly, a man who will not recruit good people and listen to them because he believes he knows best and has a mandate from "his" people. In short, a man that believes his own hype and bullshit.

Now maybe he will treat the presidency like it appears he treats his businesses--let the underlings (experts) run them and just come out for the parties or to sit in his office, but I am very afraid that will not be the case--and even if it is, the country is not like a business, and we should not have a bunch of unelected cronies calling the shots. This man can, and I believe will, cause a lot of harm to our country (even though I do think our checks and balances will restrain him). So I dread what is to come and have no optimism whatsoever.

Now if I am wrong, I will be the first one to gladly say so, but I fear I am not.

[wesw]

well, as usual, you have a reasonable, healthy bent to your opinion, and I respect that.

we ll see.

I hope that you are wrong too...

[Big RR]

I'd bet almost everyone hopes that.

[RayThom]

Just remember, George W. Bush had Dick Cheney to make all the important presidential decisions for him. I bet Mike Pence will be doing the same for Drumpf. If we make it through the upcoming and contention Inauguration Day I'm sure we'll survive.

Keep in mind, POTUS Drumpf is now making $400K a year. As a private citizen he could easily manipulate the same amount out of unsuspecting investors on a weekly basis. He'll soon get so flustered trying to remember so many countries, and non-American names, that he'll give up after a four year term -- or hopefully -- sooner.

One thing for sure, I'll be sticking with Comedy Central for all my POTUS news updates.

Oh, and God bless America. (When I last talked to Him He told me He was with her.)

[wesw]

sounds a bit shallow and spiteful to me , raythom.

tho comedians can be more honest than CNN and MSNBC, so you might be on to something special there.....

[RayThom]

sounds a bit shallow and spiteful to me , raythom.

From you that's surely no rebuke. You'll have to do better.

[wesw]

I must need more veggies in my diet...

I want to give peas a chance....

[Econoline]

My oldest daughter shared this on Facebook yesterday. It's a pretty good explanation of what many of us are feeling:

http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/11/09/her ... eve-today/

• Here’s Why We Grieve Today
  NOVEMBER 9, 2016 / JOHN PAVLOVITZ
  
  I don’t think you understand us right now.
  
  I think you think this is about politics.
  
  I think you believe this is all just sour grapes; the crocodile tears of the losing locker room with the scoreboard going against us at the buzzer.
  
  I can only tell you that you’re wrong. This is not about losing an election. This isn’t about not winning a contest. This is about two very different ways of seeing the world.
  
  Hillary supporters believe in a diverse America; one where religion or skin color or sexual orientation or place of birth aren’t liabilities or deficiencies or moral defects. Her campaign was one of inclusion and connection and interdependency. It was about building bridges and breaking ceilings. It was about going high.
  
  Trump supporters believe in a very selective America; one that is largely white and straight and Christian, and the voting verified this. Donald Trump has never made any assertions otherwise. He ran a campaign of fear and exclusion and isolation—and that’s the vision of the world those who voted for him have endorsed.
  
  They have aligned with the wall-builder and the professed p*ssy-grabber, and they have co-signed his body of work, regardless of the reasons they give for their vote:
  
  Every horrible thing Donald Trump ever said about women or Muslims or people of color has now been validated.
  
  Every profanity-laced press conference and every call to bully protestors and every ignorant diatribe has been endorsed.
  
  Every piece of anti-LGBTQ legislation Mike Pence has championed has been signed-off on.
  
  Half of our country has declared these things acceptable, noble, American.
  
  This is the disconnect and the source of our grief today. It isn’t a political defeat that we’re lamenting, it’s a defeat for Humanity.
  
  We’re not angry that our candidate lost. We’re angry because our candidate’s losing means this country will be less safe, less kind, and less available to a huge segment of its population, and that’s just the truth.
  
  Those who have always felt vulnerable are now left more so. Those whose voices have been silenced will be further quieted. Those who always felt marginalized will be pushed further to the periphery. Those who feared they were seen as inferior now have confirmation in actual percentages.
  
  Those things have essentially been campaign promises of Donald Trump, and so many of our fellow citizens have said this is what they want too.
  
  This has never been about politics.
  
  This is not about one candidate over the other.
  It’s not about one’s ideas over another’s.
  It is not blue vs. red.
  It’s not her emails vs. his bad language.
  It’s not her dishonesty vs. his indecency.
  
  It’s about overt racism and hostility toward minorities.
  It’s about religion being weaponized.
  It’s about crassness and vulgarity and disregard for women.
  It’s about a barricaded, militarized, bully nation.
  It’s about an unapologetic, open-faced ugliness.
  
  And it is not only that these things have been ratified by our nation that grieve us; all this hatred, fear, racism, bigotry, and intolerance—it’s knowing that these things have been amen-ed by our neighbors, our families, our friends, those we work with and worship alongside. That is the most horrific thing of all. We now know how close this is.
  
  It feels like living in enemy territory being here now, and there’s no way around that. We wake up today in a home we no longer recognize. We are grieving the loss of a place we used to love but no longer do. This may be America today but it is not the America we believe in or recognize or want.
  
  This is not about a difference of political opinion, as that’s far too small to mourn over. It’s about a fundamental difference in how we view the worth of all people—not just those who look or talk or think or vote the way we do.
  
  Grief always laments what might have been, the future we were robbed of, the tomorrow that we won’t get to see, and that is what we walk through today. As a nation we had an opportunity to affirm the beauty of our diversity this day, to choose ideas over sound bytes, to let everyone know they had a place at the table, to be the beacon of goodness and decency we imagine that we are—and we said no.
  
  The Scriptures say that weeping endures for a night but joy comes in the morning. We can’t see that dawn coming any time soon.
  
  And this is why we grieve.

[Econoline]

With Hillary Clinton we pretty much knew what we would get: there is a record of what she's said and done on virtually every issue the nation has faced, and is likely to face.

Worst case scenario: a rerun of the Obama administration, or a rerun of the (other) Clinton administration--whichever you think was worse.

With Trump we have no idea: you took a leap of faith, a leap into the abyss, and brought the rest of us along with you. Based only on Trump's own words--what he has publicly *SAID* he will do--he seems likely to lead the country into disaster. No, actually, a SERIES of disasters, one after another, as far as the eye can see: nuclear proliferation, war crimes, the dissolution of NATO and other alliances, the acceptance of Russian hegemony in much of Europe, trade wars, an acceleration of global warming, at least $5,300,000,000,000 added to the national debt, a possible renegotiation default on the national debt (i.e., destruction of our national credit rating), mass deportations, mass incarceration, weakening of the First Amendment, the re-criminalization of abortion...(I could probably go on and on; that was just a quick list off the top of my head.)

Our only hope is that he didn't really mean what he said, out loud, on the record, over and over again...and that's a slender reed to cling to in the face of the possible deluge.

BEST case scenario: a rerun of the George W. Bush administration, with an evangelical nutcase instead of an evil genius as the man behind the curtain.




I'm gonna go lie down and hide in my blanket fort now.

[wesw]

I don t know econo, I had a worse case scenario for Clinton that was worse than yours....

loss of the first two amendments to our constitution....

unchecked corruption....

undo influence by hostile foreign powers....

loss of sovereignty in major ways....

a more European USA.....

and a country full of crazy frickin' muslims out the ying-yang blowing our sorry asses up.

I know that the last one is bigoted but I m not perfect......

[Econoline]

If you base your predictions on what each candidate actually said during the course of this election (as opposed to what their political enemies have said ABOUT them), both my worst-case scenario for Clinton and my best-case scenario for Trump are quite realistic.

[wesw]

you seem uninformed to me, with just a shallow knowledge of these issues.

[dales]

[Econoline]

you seem uninformed to me, with just a shallow knowledge of these issues.

And you seem the same way to me, wes. "loss of the first two amendments to our constitution"? You don't seem to even know the process for amending the Constitution, and how difficult that would be, let alone what the two candidates' positions were on this. "unchecked corruption"? I've seen no evidence of Republicans ever being less corrupt than Democrats, and considering how secretive the Donald has been with his finances and his taxes, and considering he actually has used funds from his foundation illegally (including bribing a public official in Florida), just trusting him (as he's repeated asked us to do) seems beyond naïve, bordering on reckless irresponsibility. "undo influence by hostile foreign powers"? You don't consider Russia a "hostile foreign power"? The next two are wildly speculative, with no basis in anything other than fevered right-wing nightmares that the wingnuts have been having for over a century...and the final Islamophobic item is not only not fact-based, it also directly contradicts your concern about the First Amendment mentioned in your first item. So, yeah...uninformed with just a shallow knowledge of these issues. That's you--in a nutshell, so to speak.

[Econoline]

BTW...coincidentally, yesterday and today were the anniversary of Kristallnacht.

[Sue U]

-in a nutshell, so to speak.

Exactly.

[Joe Guy]

Well.... wesw is one of those Mexican Border wall nuts...