From Somalia With Love

[Bicycle Bill]

Sure, single out extra-terrestrials for discrimination, bigotry and hate...

Terranist!

Damn right!   EARTH FIRST!!
We'll get around to subjugating and pillaging the other planets later.

-"BB"-

[BoSoxGal]

I have a far greater fear of born/bred white conservative American terrorism. Statistically it's much more likely to harm people I love.

Do you have a link to those stats?

You're an intelligent person, Jim. I'm pretty sure you can do the research yourself, if you haven't been paying attention all along.

And no, I'm not speaking of just how many numbers of people killed by which terror-affiliated group (and for the record, this kid sounds like the typical disaffected, mentally ill college age person whose acts are being claimed by, but were as yet not actually linked to, organized terrorism);

I'm talking about not just clearly white conservative American terrorism in the person of the Dylan Roofs and Timothy McVeighs and KKK and Tea Party freaks of the world, but also the widespread violence and oppression occurring within our society by persons acting on all points on the white conservative terror spectrum - including the dogged attempts to separate great numbers of people of color, women, Muslims, LGBTQ, etc. from their basic human rights.

[rubato]

Why can't Somalias just stick to recommending and fetching exorbitantly priced wine?

And have you been doing your part to support them?

Have you?


yrs,
rubato

[wesw]

that was very funny meade....


ray, BP..., your comments are just unrealistic.

have either of you ever been in a fight?

do you really think that a knife wielding assailant can be easily stopped with a night stick?

try it sometime.

[Guinevere]

Sure, single out extra-terrestrials for discrimination, bigotry and hate...

Terranist!

Damn right!   EARTH FIRST!!
We'll get around to subjugating and pillaging the other planets later.

-"BB"-

[Lord Jim]

conservative American terrorism

"conservative terrorism" is actually a phrase I had never seen before I read it in your earlier post...

"Far-right terrorism" or "right-wing extremist terrorism" yes, but not "conservative terrorism"...

Does this mean that it would be fair to describe any act of terrorism performed by an individual or group with a left-wing orientation as "liberal terrorism"?

the white conservative terror spectrum - including the dogged attempts to separate great numbers of people of color, women, Muslims, LGBTQ, etc. from their basic human rights.

That looks like a really broad definition for "terror"...

Does that definition mean, for example, that anyone who voted against a proposition legalizing gay marriage in their state was engaging in some sort of "conservative terrorism"?

the typical disaffected, mentally ill college age person

Wouldn't that also describe Dylan Roof?

Let me make VERY clear that I am NOT trying to make any excuses for Dylan Roof. He is a vile, racist, mass-murdering scumbag. He richly deserves the death penalty for what he did and I hope and expect that he will receive it. I also certainly have no problem whatsoever with characterizing what he did as an act of terrorism. (And his sadistic decision to defend himself makes him even more vile. When I saw in the news that he intends to do that,it reminded me of the dirt bag who murdered a bunch of people on a New York subway a few years back who also decided to defend himself.)

But it seems to me that it's not appropriate to decide whether we're going to characterize someone as engaging in an ideologically motivated act of terrorism or characterize them as merely "disaffected" or "troubled" or "disturbed" based on whether or not we would like to highlight the particular ideology that motivated them.

Dylan Roof wasn't a member of any "terror-affiliated group" either. (In fact all the right-wing racist groups that he had corresponded with denounced his murderous rampage. Unlike ISIS, which of course has tried to take credit for this latest act of Radical Islamist terrorism in Ohio.)

For my part, I'm going to take all the scumbags who engage in these actions at their word regarding what motivated them, (particularly when an investigation provides substantial proof of them expressing the views that show that motivation) and characterize their actions accordingly. Whether or not they "self-radicalized" and acted on their own, (as was the case with Roof and Omar Mateen, the jihadist terrorist who murdered 49 at the gay club in Miami, and as appears to be the case in the OSU attack) or were formally affiliated with, or directed or assisted by some group.

Dylan Roof committed an act of racist motivated mass murder and terrorism. Omar Mateen committed an act of jihadist motivated mass murder and terrorism. The fact that both were most likely also "disaffected" or "troubled" or "disturbed" is not particularly interesting to me in determining what motivated them. (It may help explain why they could be motivated in the first place, but not why they gravitated to the motivations that they chose.)

[wesw]

if you say something that hurts someone s feelings....

....yer on the list!!!!

[Crackpot]

Barring any compelling evidence of association with a group or cause the motives and mentality of the person making the claim must be questioned.

[Lord Jim]

the motives and mentality of the person making the claim must be questioned.

And in the case of both Roof and Mateen (neither of whom apparently had a formal association with any radical group) they made their motives quite clear through their writings and statements, and the history of what they were accessing on the internet shows how they constructed and "validated" their motivations...

As for questioning the "mentality" I wouldn't limit that just to Lone Wolf terrorists...

They could all no doubt benefit from a "check-up from the neck-up" even (maybe especially) those who have formal ties with larger terrorist groups...

[Big RR]

True, but then I would think a lot of Lone Wolf terrorists are more like Travis Bickle of Taxi Driver than zealots or ideologues. IMHO, many are just looking for some excuse to express their feelings, and have no particular tie or leaning toward any political position. Indeed, I recall a LeCarre novel, The Little Drummer Girl, which showed how easily an avowed anti-Zionist woman could be turned to work for Israeli intelligence (read the book though, the movie is nowhere near as good). Many of these are the future Mansons of the world more than warriors, and fighting them is more complex than just cracking down on ISIS or moslems.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Why can't Somalias just stick to recommending and fetching exorbitantly priced wine?

And have you been doing your part to support them?

Have you?


yrs,
rubato

Of course, dear boy. Need you ask?

[Bicycle Bill]

do you really think that a knife wielding assailant can be easily stopped with a night stick by someone who has been trained in how to use it?

Fixed it for you, wes.

-"BB"-

[Burning Petard]

"do you really think that a knife wielding assailant can be easily stopped with a night stick?"

I did not say easily. I tried to imply it could with training and competency. Knife wounds are rarely immediately disabling. Properly wielded baton produces broken bones and is rarely fatal. Not so much police imposed bullet wounds. Tazers are one size fits all and the effects are frequently too much or too little.

Do you want to see my scars on the base of my right thumb and across my right fingers, and in my upper left thigh? I am left handed.

snailgate

[wesw]

BP, with all due respect, you don t seem to have a working knowledge of fighting.

[Burning Petard]

a "working knowledge of fighting" is not communicated or demonstrated by speaking or writing or reading.

snailgate.

[wesw]

one more try....

have you ever been in a fight where you feared for your life?

[dales]

Many of these are the future Mansons of the world ....

Here's a Susan Atkins look-a-like named "Star".

I wonder if she knows how to "creepy-crawl"?

[Jarlaxle]

I say again. Most cops today carry a collapsed baton and a taser on their equipment belt. They reach for their gun first. They practice with the pistol. They practice very little with the baton. A nightstick or the high-tech version, the PR24, are more adaptable than a firearm. The knife is useless beyond arms reach. A blow to the forearm, elbow, collarbone with an old fashioned night stick would have ended the confrontation. This is not the responsibility of the cop on the street. It is a predictable result of an upper-management bias that it it better to buy equipment which the seller claims can be used with little training rather than actually spend time and money over and over to train people. Look into the front seat of your neighborhood cop car. The driver is surrounded by equipment, including multiple computer screens. [distracted driving? What's that?] There is no place for a 'partner' to even sit in the car. Equipment over people. The terrorist from Somalia could have been available for direct information. Now it is only speculation.

snailgate

Ok how about YOU try disarming a psycho waving a knife with a baton. Make sure your medical insurance is paid up.

[Econoline]

When your only tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.

When your only tool is a gun, every problem becomes a target.

[Jarlaxle]

Does that mean you're not willing to volunteer too disarm the knife-waving psycho, either?