The Carrier "Deal"

[Bicycle Bill]

Trump has been making a lot of his supposed "deal" with Carrier, maker of HVAC equipment, to keep around 1000 jobs in Indiana.  After his win, Trump and Pence cut a deal with Carrier to keep some of the 2,000 jobs it planned to relocate to Mexico. But the agreement, which will keep roughly half of the jobs in the US, came at a cost:  The New York Times reported that Carrier will “receive multiyear state economic incentives worth a total of $7 million.”

According to Trump, the Carrier deal happened mostly by chance.  He said he was motivated to push for the agreement about a week ago, when he watched a news segment that was doing a story on Carrier (Trump did not identify the source, as he says that 'he doesn't like them much, not even a little bit').

“About a week ago I was watching the nightly news — I won’t say which one, because I don’t want to give them credit, I don’t like them much, I’ll be honest, I don’t like them, not even a little bit — but they were doing a story on Carrier,” Trump recalled.  “And I said, ‘Wow, that’s something.  I want to see that.’”

The news segment featured a man, whom Trump described as “such a believer,” saying the president-elect would honor his vow to bring the Carrier jobs back.  Trump said the man had actually misinterpreted his words.

“He said, ‘We’re not leaving because Donald Trump promised us that we’re not leaving.’  I never thought I made that promise,” he said.  “Then they played my statement.  And I said, ‘Carrier will never leave!’  But that was a euphemism; I was talking about Carrier like all other companies,” he continued.
.......Colin Campbell, Yahoo News

So not only do we have a bigoted, xenophobic, egotistical, unqualified dunderhead as POTUS-Elect, we now find that he is also opportunistic to a fault.  He has no formal plan or policy as yet and I doubt that he will ever have one.  He will stagger from one crisis and incident to another, making policy and deals as he goes and always with one eye as to how it will make him look.  

And he apparently has no intention of keeping his word, mainly because he can't remember what it was that he said, or when he said it, or to whom it was said.  Quite frankly, if they hadn't had the video of him making his "Carrier will never leave!" pledge he probably wouldn't have done a thing ... or at least nothing this quickly.

A political administration is sometimes referred to as a 'ship of state'.  I predict that Trump's ship of state will founder like the 'Titanic' within a year and his own supporters — once they've milked every last drop they can from the government teat — will be leading the mutiny against him.

-"BB"-

[Gob]

So not only do we have a bigoted, xenophobic, egotistical, unqualified dunderhead as POTUS-Elect, we now find that he is also opportunistic to a fault. He has no formal plan or policy as yet and I doubt that he will ever have one. He will stagger from one crisis and incident to another, making policy and deals as he goes and always with one eye as to how it will make him look.

The next four years will be comedy gold.

I thought you'd reached the zenith of comedy when you elected a chimp's co-star as president, then you went and elected the chimp!

Just to prove you hadn't reached the pinnacle of lunacy with Chimpy Bush, you follow up with Trump.

Your system is fucking nuts.

[oldr_n_wsr]

NY State and it's counties make these kinds of deals all the time. PILOT (Payment In Lieu Of Taxes) programs and tax breaks abound here on Long Island. There are a bunch of people up in arms that Green Acres Mall got such a break that local homeowners in that area are seeing hundreds of dollars added to their property taxes.

[Big RR]

Oldr--in NJ PIILOT arrangements are reserved for tax exempt entities like religious institutions or governmental agencies (like state or federal ones) making a payment to the locality to compensate for services received (police protection, etc.)--is it different in NY? Tax breaks are often negotiated to keep the business in the locality (or attract a new one there). From what I understand about Carrier, the state is subsidizing the business (not sure if through tax abatements or payments) to keep the small percentage of jobs there (with the rest going to Mexico)--just more corporate welfare--if we just made the payments directly to those affected without the Carrier middleman it would probably be more cost effective, but then the republicans would be up in arms about "welfare".

[liberty]

Obama said manufacturing jobs are gone and are not coming back, but this man proved him a liar. Manufacturing jobs can be brought back and he has done it. Just think what the government could if they took a war like attitude towards any company that left the country. The first thing that trump could do would be declare economic war on Burger king for moving their Head quarters to Canada. Call for a boycott of Burger king stores. Trump supporters could key cars parked in Burger King parking lots and discourage people from buying their burgers. Destroy their business and make an example of them and save this country:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes- ... x-higgins/

[Big RR]

As I recall only around a third of the jobs are staying, the rest are going to Mexico; and the government is subsidizing the company to keep that small percentage of the jobs. Is it better than nothing? Sure, especially if it is your job, but in long term I doubt these jobs will stay--they will follow the 60+ % that left once the corporate welfare payments tail off; time will tell, but I'd give pretty good odds that is what will happen. IMHO it is window dressing more than any real progress; we'd be much better off offering training an support to the displaced workers than giving the money to the company to pay them (creating a culture of corporate dependency). And if you want to boycott, why not do so for the 2000+ jobs that went to Mexico.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/indiana-giv ... 1480608461

[Big RR]

Sorry

[Econoline]

[Sue U]

Seriously, does anybody even believe the Carrier "deal" was either (1) a good thing for America/Indiana and/or (b) the product of Trump's (or Pence's) hard-nosed deal-making? I thought Trump said that if Carrier shipped its jobs and manufacturing to Mexico, he'd slap a 35% tariff on their products, and that would coerce them to stay here. Instead, Mike Pence gives Carrier 7 million bucks so that it can continue to ship its jobs and manufacturing to Mexico while paying its remaining employees with taxpayers' money.

Come to think of it, this does sound just like a Trump deal: Use other people's money to prop up a losing business, stick them with the debt, and declare yourself a business genius.

Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle, can't anyone spot a con anymore?

[Econoline]

Also:

Fox News Cheers Trump Over 1,000 Carrier Jobs; Denounced Obama For Saving 1.5 Million Auto Industry Jobs

Hypocrisy, much?

[Big RR]

I think you've gotten the entire con Sue.

[RayThom]

You must remember that Pence and his White House team is not selling the steak... they only need to sell the sizzle. If it smells and sounds right that's good enough for loyal Trumpanzees.

The 1,300 ex-Carrier employees that lost out on the art of the deal should be pissed but they, too, probably voted for Trump so they know complaining would be seen as being unpatriotic.

[Sue U]

I think you've gotten the entire con Sue.

I mean, they're not even trying to hide it with fancy accounting terms or creative debt instruments. It's just plain-vanilla old-timey graft.

I swear, people are idiots.

[Lord Jim]

This has brought together two of the strangest bedfellows imaginable...

Bernie Sanders and Sarah Palin :

Right and Left Grump at Trump About Carrier Deal


Bernie Sanders thinks Trump—and we—were duped. And the deal is a promise broken, not kept.

President-elect Donald Trump will reportedly announce a deal with United Technologies, the corporation that owns Carrier, that keeps less than 1,000 of the 2,100 jobs in America that were previously scheduled to be transferred to Mexico. Let’s be clear: It is not good enough to save some of these jobs. Trump made a promise that he would save all of these jobs, and we cannot rest until an ironclad contract is signed to ensure that all of these workers are able to continue working in Indiana without having their pay or benefits slashed.

In exchange for allowing United Technologies to continue to offshore more than 1,000 jobs, Trump will reportedly give the company tax and regulatory favors that the corporation has sought. Just a short few months ago, Trump was pledging to force United Technologies to “pay a damn tax.” He was insisting on very steep tariffs for companies like Carrier that left the United States and wanted to sell their foreign-made products back in the United States. Instead of a damn tax, the company will be rewarded with a damn tax cut. Wow! How’s that for standing up to corporate greed? How’s that for punishing corporations that shut down in the United States and move abroad?

In essence, United Technologies took Trump hostage and won. And that should send a shock wave of fear through all workers across the country.

Trump has endangered the jobs of workers who were previously safe in the United States. Why? Because he has signaled to every corporation in America that they can threaten to offshore jobs in exchange for business-friendly tax benefits and incentives. Even corporations that weren’t thinking of offshoring jobs will most probably be reevaluating their stance this morning. And who would pay for the high cost for tax cuts that go to the richest businessmen in America? The working class of America.

Well, that’s Bernie. But the real surprise is Sarah Palin—whom Trump is reportedly considering to head the second largest agency in the country (Veterans’ Affairs). She’s against the deal, too. Writing for Young Conservatives, she basically says Trump is destroying capitalism.

When government steps in arbitrarily with individual subsidies, favoring one business over others, it sets inconsistent, unfair, illogical precedent. Meanwhile, the invisible hand that best orchestrates a free people’s free enterprise system gets amputated. Then, special interests creep in and manipulate markets. Republicans oppose this, remember? Instead, we support competition on a level playing field, remember? Because we know special interest crony capitalism is one big fail.

Politicians picking and choosing recipients of corporate welfare is railed against by fiscal conservatives, for it’s a hallmark of corruption. And socialism. . .

But know that fundamentally, political intrusion using a stick or carrot to bribe or force one individual business to do what politicians insist, versus establishing policy incentivizing our ENTIRE ethical economic engine to roar back to life, isn’t the answer. Cajole only chosen ones on Main St or Wall St and watch lines stretch from Washington to Alaska full of businesses threatening to bail unless taxpayers pony up. The lines strangle competition and really, really, dispiritingly screw with workers’ lives. It’s beyond unacceptable, so let’s anticipate equal incentivizes and positive reform all across the field – to make the economy great again.

Read more at http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.c ... 0EQuGGc.99

It's true what they say...

Great minds think alike...

[Big RR]

Sarah Palin--once again proof that even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Oldr--in NJ PIILOT arrangements are reserved for tax exempt entities like religious institutions or governmental agencies (like state or federal ones) making a payment to the locality to compensate for services received (police protection, etc.)--is it different in NY?

I guess it is BigRR as I have read about PILOTS going to private (or publically traded) companies.

And Carrier is owned by United Technologies. Maybe Trump threatened their large military divisions with "the US gov looking elsewhere" when procurement time came.

[ex-khobar Andy]

A couple of lifetimes ago, because we were a govt contractor I became reasonably familiar with the Federal Acquisition Regulations universally known as FAR. There are page s an pages in there basically saying - if you are a federal contract administrator you are NOT allowed to take anything into account which is not in the RFP and the proposal.

[Burning Petard]

But Andy, you are not taking into account all the back room wheeling and dealing that goes on before the RFP is written.

[liberty]

Are you guys saying that we are destine to be a poor third would country? What happens when there are more destitute people than we have money to take of; do we walk way from the nursing homes and let old people take care for themselves? Do we dump the retarded on the streets and let the predators have them?

[Econoline]