Voter ID

[Jarlaxle]

Bad registration records is not the same as bad votes.

Well SG, I'll repeat the request I have made before:

If somebody has a plausible explanation for why people who are legally ineligible to vote would register to vote other than that they would like to have the option to vote, (just as people who are legally eligible to vote do) I'd be delighted to hear it...

And if they are (as logic would seem to indicate) registering for that purpose, (afterall, aside from making it more likely that you'll be called for jury duty, registering to vote conveys no other "benefit") why would anyone think that they wouldn't vote in percentages comparable to those who are legally eligible?

To date I have gotten no answers to either of those questions. (I don't fault anyone for that; when there is no good answer possible, I don't expect anybody to come up with one.)

Requiring individuals to show specific types of identification (voter id laws) when they stand in front of the table while some volunteer checks the registration list will not change the bad list.

If the IDs approved required source material that showed proof of legal eligibility to vote in order to obtain them, it would certainly prevent those people who shouldn't be on the registered voter list from voting. (I agree that fixing the broken registration system would be preferable, but until and unless the steps are taken that would be necessary to do this, the polling place has become the final defacto firewall to assure the integrity of the electoral process.)

A few additional points:

1. I do not support all aspects of every voter ID law that has been proposed or adopted. For example, one state, (I forget which one) was proposing to have an NRA membership card serve as an acceptable ID for voting. Well, unless one is required to provide source material documentation of a legal right to vote to obtain an NRA membership card, (which I'm pretty sure is not the case.) that's completely unacceptable in my book.

(Every bit as unacceptable as using college ID cards which are issued to thousands of foreign students who are in the country quite legally on student visas, but who of course are also not legally eligible to vote in elections.)

2. It is almost certainly the case that there are a fair number of non-eligibles who are registered and voting that are doing so in an innocent though mistaken belief that they are entitled to do. (The south Florida study in my link indicates this.) These are for the most part legal resident aliens who for whatever reason, (language barrier problems, unscrupulous paid registrars telling them they are eligible, etc.) have come to believe this. But even if a person is registered and voting because of a mistaken belief, they still shouldn't be voting.

3. Some folks will say, (I think somebody around here has said), "Well, even if you have ID's that require source documentation like birth certificates or naturalization papers, people will be able to get forgeries for those things"

Yeah, that's true, but getting those forgeries, (particularly of a high enough quality to be able to thwart modern verification technologies) is expensive, and certainly not something that most people would have access to. If we implement a solid voter ID law with the requirements I've mentioned, and all that we're left with is those who are getting forged documents, we will have reduced the problem by more than 90%, and that would be a huge improvement.

I mostly agree...but SOME people are registered to vote, without deliberately doing so. My friend's grandmother (Canadian-born, resident alien) was registered to vote TWICE, due to renewing her drivers' license. She never asked to, the DMV drone just did it! (She never voted.)

[Crackpot]

Rr I don't have to present a passport to leave the US on my way to Canada (I do have to present it to Canadian authorities upon arrival in thier country) and upon arrival back in the US. But not before leaving either country.

[ex-khobar Andy]

As a long-time Buffalo NY resident and frequent visitor to the fleshpots of Ontario (see Canadian Ballet, for example) I can confirm that Crackpot is correct - they only want to see your passport at the other side. And if you don't have it (or a similar document provided for that specific crossing at reduced cost) they won't let you in. And to avoid the bridge oscillation syndrome ICE will let you back in. Ergo, you need a passport to leave the country.

And returning to LJ's point: if a large number of people apparently culled from the voter rolls claim to be non-citizens in order to get out of jury duty, who is surprised? A fuller accounting of that number (I.e., what portion does that represent?) might help to make some sense of it. Absent that context it is meaningless and not evidence of electoral cheating.

[rubato]

I know this will shock everyone, but people frequently lie to get out of jury duty.


yrs,
rubato