Trump's Peculiar Form Of "Christianity"

[BoSoxGal]

Juxtapose the inaugural dances too - the Obamas are clearly a couple still very much in love, it's doubtful the Trumps ever were.

[Big RR]

Do you really care if they are or ever were? I don't.

[BoSoxGal]

On a personal level? No.

But there are many children in this country who have no model at home of loving, respectful marriage and the former first family was an excellent one, it's sad to see such a juxtaposition.

As to what it says about Trump's psychological makeup that he doesn't even help his wife out of the limo upon entering the White House on Inauguration Day . . . I think all of his serious character flaws are relevant, yes.

[wesw]

maybe she doesn t need help out of the limo....

if he had helped her out you would criticize his traditional man-ways as Neanderthal

instead you are clutching at your pearls....

and clutching at straws...

sad.

[Guinevere]

Manners are never sexist.

[wesw]

I agree, but I have certainly seen women who would disagree, and get offended if you try to hold a door for them

[Guinevere]

I never have, although I've heard plenty of mansplaining on the subject.

And it's quite clear the little Trumpanzee doesn't have any manners. He treats his wife like dirt. Truly sad.

[rubato]

Of course he does not help Melania. Melania IS the help.


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

But AFAIK not even the Romans have a consistent doctrinal history of declaring that God's purpose is to make believers wealthy.

No, but they do usually cooperate with those in power and often say god put them there, from the kings of the middle ages who ruled by divine right, to those currently in power. Look at who the (mainly RC) chrch sided with during the Spanish Civil War (hint: not the republicans) or the Mexican revolution (again, not the common people who were most of their members). This easily translates to justifying the status quo, and keeping the rich in their positions. Certainly it is not what jesus taught or died for (nor would jesus have taken those sides), but then his message was perverted, was it not, to tell the poor to persevere and accept their place and that they would be rewarded in heaven--making much of christianity indeed and opiate of the masses. And this is the message that has come from, and continues to come from, many churches claiming to be Christian. It's a short jump to say that god rewards the most faithful here and in the hereafter, and that plays well with the haves that the churches court for their power and money.

And IMHO, that is why this belief, contrary to the teachings of jesus (unless you think his statement to Pilate that he would not be in the governor's chair had not god ordained it to somehow teach this), abounds.

The biblical verse is John 19:11, in relevant part "Jesus answered, Thou couldst have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above..." which I have heard many use to justify the right sof the have--from the divine right of king sonward.

Wow, like I posted it myself. Of course I would have followed with the historical fact that both protestant and catholic churches in Germany supported Hitler. Because you haven't really gotten to the bottom of thingsuntil you've brought Hitler into it!

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.ph ... d=10005206

" ...
These were some of the reasons why most Christians in Germany welcomed the rise of Nazism in 1933. They were also persuaded by the statement on “positive Christianity” in Article 24 of the 1920 Nazi Party Platform, which read:

"We demand the freedom of all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not jeopardize the state's existence or conflict with the manners and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The Party as such upholds the point of view of a positive Christianity without tying itself confessionally to any one confession. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit at home and abroad and is convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only be achieved from within on the basis of the common good before individual good."

Despite the open antisemitism of this statement and its linkage between confessional "freedom" and a nationalistic, racialized understanding of morality, many Christians in Germany at the time read this as an affirmation of Christian values.

PROTESTANT CHURCHES IN NAZI GERMANY

The largest Protestant church in Germany in the 1930s was the German Evangelical Church, comprised of 28 regional churches or Landeskirchen that included the three major theological traditions that had emerged from the Reformation: Lutheran, Reformed, and United. Most of Germany's 40 million Protestants were members of this church, although there were smaller so-called "free" Protestant churches, such as Methodist and Baptist churches.

Historically the German Evangelical Church viewed itself as one of the pillars of German culture and society, with a theologically grounded tradition of loyalty to the state. During the 1920s, a movement emerged within the German Evangelical Church called the Deutsche Christen, or "German Christians." The "German Christians" embraced many of the nationalistic and racial aspects of Nazi ideology. Once the Nazis came to power, this group sought the creation of a national "Reich Church" and supported a "nazified" version of Christianity.

The Bekennende Kirche—the "Confessing Church"—emerged in opposition to the “German Christians.” Its founding document, the Barmen Confession of Faith, declared that the church's allegiance was to God and scripture, not a worldly Führer. Both the Confessing Church and the "German Christians" remained part of the German Evangelical Church, and the result was a Kirchenkampf, or "church struggle" within German Protestantism—an ongoing debate and struggle for control between those who sought a "nazified" church, those who opposed it, and the so-called "neutral" church leaders whose priority was the avoidance both of church schism and any kind of conflict with the Nazi state.

The most famous members of the Confessing Church were the theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer, executed for his role in the conspiracy to overthrow the regime, and Pastor Martin Niemöller, who spent seven years in concentration camps for his criticisms of Hitler. Yet these clergymen were not typical of the Confessing Church; despite their examples, the Protestant Kirchenkampf was mostly an internal church matter, not a fight against National Socialism. Even in the Confessing Church, most church leaders were primarily concerned with blocking state and ideological interference in church affairs. Yet there were certainly members of the clergy and laity who opposed and resisted the regime, including some who aided and hid Jews.

THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IN NAZI GERMANY

The Catholic Church was not as sharply divided by different ideological factions as the Protestant church, and it never underwent an internal Kirchenkampf between these different factions. Catholic leaders were initially more suspicious of National Socialism than their Protestant counterparts. Nationalism was not as deeply embedded in the German Catholic Church, and the rabid anti-Catholicism of figures such as Alfred Rosenberg, a leading Nazi ideologue during the Nazi rise to power, raised early concerns among Catholic leaders in Germany and at the Vatican. In addition, the Catholic Centre Party had been a key coalition governmental partner in the Weimar Republic during the 1920s and was aligned with both the Social Democrats and leftist German Democratic Party, pitting it politically against right-wing parties like the Nazis.

Before 1933, in fact, some bishops prohibited Catholics in their dioceses from joining the Nazi Party. This ban was dropped after Hitler's March 23, 1933, speech to the Reichstag in which he described Christianity as the “foundation” for German values. The Centre Party was dissolved as part of the signing of a 1933 Concordat between the Vatican and Nazi governmental representatives, and several of its leaders were murdered in the Röhm purge in July 1934.

SUMMARY

In both German churches there were members, including clergy and leading theologians, who openly supported the Nazi regime. With time, anti-Nazi sentiment grew in both Protestant and Catholic church circles, as the Nazi regime exerted greater pressure on them. In turn, the Nazi regime saw a potential for dissent in church criticism of state measures. When a protest statement was read from the pulpits of Confessing churches in March 1935, for example, Nazi authorities reacted forcefully by briefly arresting over 700 pastors. After the 1937 papal encyclical Mit brennender Sorge ("With burning concern") was read from Catholic pulpits, the Gestapo confiscated copies from diocesan offices throughout the country.

The general tactic by the leadership of both Protestant and Catholic churches in Germany was caution with respect to protest and compromise with the Nazi state leadership where possible. There was criticism within both churches of Nazi racialized ideology and notions of "Aryanism," and movements emerged in both churches to defend church members who were considered "non-Aryan" under Nazi racial laws (e.g., Jews who had converted). Yet throughout this period there was virtually no public opposition to antisemitism or any readiness by church leaders to publicly oppose the regime on the issues of antisemitism and state-sanctioned violence against the Jews. There were individual Catholics and Protestants who spoke out on behalf of Jews, and small groups within both churches that became involved in rescue and resistance activities (for example, the White Rose and Herman Maas).

After 1945, the silence of the church leadership and the widespread complicity of "ordinary Christians" compelled leaders of both churches to address issues of guilt and complicity during the Holocaust—a process that continues internationally to this day.

yrs,
rubato

[Bicycle Bill]

maybe she doesn t need help out of the limo....

if he had helped her out you would criticize his traditional man-ways as Neanderthal

instead you are clutching at your pearls....

and clutching at straws...

sad.

wes, I am nothing at all if not a gentleman ... and a gentleman always stands ready to assist a lady.
Any lady.
Even your wife, mother, daughter, or sister.
And if you've got a problem with that, well then, you are a sad, strange little man and you have my pity.

-"BB"-

[dales]

Even your wife, mother, daughter, or sister.

You didn't mention mother-in-law.

[oldr_n_wsr]

My mother-in-law was a wonderful lady. I miss her.

[rubato]

My mother in law was a horrible alcoholic whose final days I was responsible for taking care of since her children were all alienated from her. I was the best choice since I had no negative feelings towards her and just wanted her to be treated decently and with some compassion. Mind you, I don't forgive people who have a self-administered lobotomy.



yrs,
rubato

[Crackpot]

Why do you hate yourself so much? If you can't forgive yourself you'll never be happy.

[Joe Guy]

That's why rubato often says, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy".

[rubato]

That's why rubato often says, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy".

My brain cells are sufficiently clear to recall the joke correctly, which your addled brain cannot.

"I would rather have a free bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy."

There is rhythm in the correct version.


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Why do you hate yourself so much? If you can't forgive yourself you'll never be happy.

Why would I hate myself? I am a better person morally and I have achieved more practically than most.

But it is true that if you ask if you are happy you cease to be so.

Or so I have read:

Ask yourself whether you are happy, and you cease to be so.
John Stuart Mill

Think, dear.


yrs,
rubato

[Joe Guy]

[rubato]

Still a clumsy misrepresentation of the joke.

Do you really have no ear at all?

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

I don't forgive people who have a self-administered lobotomy.

Why do you hate yourself so much? If you can't forgive yourself you'll never be happy.

Why would I hate myself?