Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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rubato
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Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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http://acasignups.net/17/02/23/presente ... ut-comment
Presented Without Comment.
Posted on Thu, 02/23/2017 - 11:21am

Welp (via Politico):
Boehner: Republicans won't repeal and replace Obamacare

Former House Speaker John Boehner predicted on Thursday that a full repeal and replace of Obamacare is “not going to happen.”

Boehner, who retired in 2015 amid unrest among conservatives, said at an Orlando healthcare conference that the idea that a repeal-and-replace plan would blitz through Congress was just “happy talk.”

Instead, he said changes to former President Barack Obama’s signature legislative achievement would likely be relatively modest.
...“I started laughing,” he said. “Republicans never ever agree on health care.”

In the end, “Most of the framework of the Affordable Care Act … that’s going to be there,” he concluded.

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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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I hope he's right!
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Sue U
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

Post by Sue U »

Personally, I would like to see a complete overhaul of the ACA, but not along the lines any Republican has been talking about. The fact is that, for a host of reasons, healthcare is a segment of the economy that is just not particularly suited to market capitalism. Moreover, to the extent that individuals' access to affordable health care is in the enlightened self-interest of society as a whole -- if not an affirmative moral obligation of society -- healthcare for all should be a public guarantee, and not a subsidy program for a highly profitable oligopoly of insurance companies.
GAH!

rubato
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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On the other hand the threat of abolishing the ACA is very effective motivation for Calif. going it alone with single-payer.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17181

If Calif. pioneers the change and shows that it can be successful it can then spread through the higher-functioning states (liberal states) and eventually the backwards states.


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Long Run
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

Post by Long Run »

Sue U wrote: The fact is that, for a host of reasons, healthcare is a segment of the economy that is just not particularly suited to market capitalism.
Actually, it works just fine in a capitalist market system, but unfortunately most of healthcare is a far cry from a true market. Look at the segments of healthcare that are true markets, where the customer pays for their medical needs directly. LASIK, dental braces and cosmetic surgery, are paid for by the consumer and stand alone as medical procedures that have gotten cheaper in real dollar terms while also steadily becoming higher quality at every price point. The rest of healthcare is a mishmash of heavy government regulation of both providers and insurers, government single-payer plans dominating a market with Medicare, Medicaid and the VA (and when we talk single payer in the U.S., those are the plans we're going to get -- not the Canadian, UK or Australia plans which are always described with rose-colored glasses). And the systemic problem is that there's always someone else paying the bill and insulating the consumer from the vast majority of the costs.

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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

Post by Lord Jim »

Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.
Gee whiz, talk about a grossly misleading subject line...

That was clearly intended to imply that Boehner "admitted" that every criticism of Obamacare was a "lie", when he said absolutely nothing of the kind...

Basically a fake-news headline...
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Big RR
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

Post by Big RR »

Long Run wrote:
Sue U wrote: The fact is that, for a host of reasons, healthcare is a segment of the economy that is just not particularly suited to market capitalism.
Actually, it works just fine in a capitalist market system, but unfortunately most of healthcare is a far cry from a true market. Look at the segments of healthcare that are true markets, where the customer pays for their medical needs directly. LASIK, dental braces and cosmetic surgery, are paid for by the consumer and stand alone as medical procedures that have gotten cheaper in real dollar terms while also steadily becoming higher quality at every price point. The rest of healthcare is a mishmash of heavy government regulation of both providers and insurers, government single-payer plans dominating a market with Medicare, Medicaid and the VA (and when we talk single payer in the U.S., those are the plans we're going to get -- not the Canadian, UK or Australia plans which are always described with rose-colored glasses). And the systemic problem is that there's always someone else paying the bill and insulating the consumer from the vast majority of the costs.

LR, but that isn't the point--those procedures are all optional procedures done for cosmetic purposes for the most part; if the consumer doesn't like it, (s)he can just walk away and be fine. That is not the case with, say, cancer; when it's a life and death decision most people will pay whatever is asked--they're not going to bargain or walk away, and so prices can be whatever the establishment chooses. There is absolutely no free market when there is no laternative other than death.

Add to that the simple fact that the medical establishment has essentially taken over all phases of healthcare, and you must go to a practitioner to get treatment, even for minor conditions. I can't just walk into a lab and say check my cholesterol, or into a pharmacy and get Lipitor, I have to go to the physician and pay that price first--and if I need access to it for treatment or monitoring, I will pay what I have to.

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Sue U
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

Post by Sue U »

Long Run wrote:
Sue U wrote: The fact is that, for a host of reasons, healthcare is a segment of the economy that is just not particularly suited to market capitalism.
Actually, it works just fine in a capitalist market system, but unfortunately most of healthcare is a far cry from a true market. Look at the segments of healthcare that are true markets, where the customer pays for their medical needs directly. LASIK, dental braces and cosmetic surgery, are paid for by the consumer and stand alone as medical procedures that have gotten cheaper in real dollar terms while also steadily becoming higher quality at every price point. The rest of healthcare is a mishmash of heavy government regulation of both providers and insurers, government single-payer plans dominating a market with Medicare, Medicaid and the VA (and when we talk single payer in the U.S., those are the plans we're going to get -- not the Canadian, UK or Australia plans which are always described with rose-colored glasses). And the systemic problem is that there's always someone else paying the bill and insulating the consumer from the vast majority of the costs.
As a rule, LASIK, orthodontia and cosmetic surgery are not medically necessary procedures and do not affect physical wellness. If you have disposable income and want to spend it on these things, that's fine, but they do not truly constitute "healthcare" -- as evidenced by their lack of coverage under virtually every health plan, public or private. But emergency treatment and unpredictable major illnesses simply do not lend themselves to consumer "choice" in either obtaining treatment, selection of facility, or selection of physician. And I have no idea what you mean by "a mishmash of heavy government regulation of both providers and insurers," could you be more specific? Because as a rule, providers and insurers are governed by state law, and generally do not have much in the way of interstate business.

As for what we might get with a single-payer national health system, I don't know any senior who has serious complaints about Medicare, and I know from personal experience that coverage under my state's Medicaid program is actually better than most of the ACA or "traditional" plans available from health insurers.

Finally, as for "someone else paying the bill and insulating the consumer from the vast majority of the costs," the whole point of accessible and affordable healthcare is to encourage early use of low-cost primary-care services so as to avoid the need for much more costly and intensive care later. Insulating the consumer from the (highly inflated) costs of care for major illness is highly preferable to the much greater costs of personal bankruptcies resulting from medical expense debt. No consumer truly chooses how much s/he will spend on treatment for a serious illness or injury, especially because those costs are an unknowable mystery.

ETA:

What Big RR said above, also too.
GAH!

rubato
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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Actually, it works just fine in a [fantasy] capitalist market system, but unfortunately most of healthcare is a far cry from a true market.

There are no examples of HC systems which are capitalist markets which are better. All of the 19 G-20 countries with HC better and cheaper than ours are either single-payer or very tightly regulated semi-capitalist systems like Germany and Switzerland.
LASIK, dental braces and cosmetic surgery, are paid for by the consumer and stand alone as medical procedures that have gotten cheaper in real dollar terms while also steadily becoming higher quality at every price point.
LASIK, Dental braces and cosmetic surgery are avail only to the affluent who can afford them. Access to HC is a critical measure of HC quality.
not the Canadian, UK or Australia plans which are always described with rose-colored glasses)
When they are objectively measured by outcomes they are far batter and far cheaper.

We have been running this experiment for > 50 years and the US private HC system fails and falls further and further behind the rest of the first world. It's long past time to admit the failure and do what > 60% of the voters now admit is right, switch to single-payer. A group of CEOs of the largest US companies admitted as much more than ten years ago and FWIW many US manufacturers have moved production to Canada because the HC system there is so much better and cheaper there that net labor costs are reduced.



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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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Sue U
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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OFFS.... :arg
GAH!

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dales
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:25 pm
On the other hand the threat of abolishing the ACA is very effective motivation for Calif. going it alone with single-payer.

yrs,
rubato
Yes, CA is flush with money!

LMAO! :lol:

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
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rubato
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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Compared to the rest of the country and all of the low-functioning Republican states, we are.


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dales
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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I see more remedial instruction is in order:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol- ... story.html
Less than four years after declaring California’s budget balanced for the foreseeable future, Gov. Jerry Brown on Tuesday said the state is projected to run a $1.6-billion deficit by next summer — a noticeable shift in the state’s fiscal stability that could worsen under federal spending cuts championed by President-elect Donald Trump.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


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Sue U
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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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Single-payer health coverage for California doesn't have to be funded with only current state revenues. By definition, a state single-payer program for all Californians would eliminate health insurance companies from the primary coverage marketplace, at a minimum. What's now being paid to health insurers as premiums can be redirected to the state program to fund healthcare for all, reducing administrative costs, eliminating the demand for profits, and using the bulk purchasing power of the state to negotiate costs and fees. I haven't looked at the CA market in isolation, but if it's anything like the national market as a whole, there should be plenty enough money in the healthcare system already to pay for universal coverage in a statewide single-payer system, and to keep costs stable (and probably lower) for a significant period into the future.
GAH!

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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

Post by dales »

With all the push-back that the Trumpanzees are receiving regarding ACA repeal, this argument is at best purely academic.

CALIFORNIA would be best served by retaining the ACA.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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dales wrote: CALIFORNIA would be best served by retaining the ACA.
Why? This may actually be a golden opportunity for a single-payer demonstration program. The Trump Administration is looking for ways to dump Obamacare and CA is poised to step up and show how it's done. It's an ideal way to get the federal government out of non-Medicare healthcare, which the Republicans should love. Why would you want to hang on to a program the GOP government is deliberately trying to undermine if not destroy altogether? A program that, apart from enrollment success, really isn't all that great?
GAH!

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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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reducing administrative costs,
Has the gov ever done this?

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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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I think that's why medicare was established as single payer system, and it seems to work (although it is still the most expensive segment of the population to insure). Some claim the marketplace could do it cheaper, but the plain fact is that they didn't before medicare, and many elderly were left uninsured until it was enacted. I'm sure it could be much better, but given the enormous task it has, it works reasonably well.

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Re: Boehner admits the anti-ACA talk was a lie.

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oldr_n_wsr wrote:
reducing administrative costs,
Has the gov ever done this?

17% of private insurance dollars go to administrative costs, only 2% of Medicare/Medicaid.

Got another, valid, argument? :shrug
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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