The Muscovite Candidate

[Scooter]

Nah, nothing to see here.

[rubato]

Thanks, WOW, do the GOP senators have any judgement at all? Any?

[Burning Petard]

The GOP senators have excellent judgement. The only question before them is 'How do I get re-elected?'

snailgate

[Lord Jim]

Sergey Kislyak must have one of these:



People who meet with him can never seem to remember the meeting...

[Scooter]

[BoSoxGal]

[Econoline]

[Scooter]

[Econoline]

Rachel Maddow (yeah, I know, I know...Rachel Maddow!...but please, just listen to what she's saying) gives voice to everything Lord Jim has been worried about since he started this thread last July.



(Wonkette, in their intro to this clip, said, “If by ‘drain the swamp’ Trump meant ‘literally destroy one of the most important, longest standing departments of the U.S. government,’ then that mission is being accomplished!”)

[Lord Jim]

Not generally a big fan of Rachel's...

She's pretty smarmy and frequently plays fast and lose with the facts...

But I saw that piece she did on Putingate, and I've seen other stories she's done about it...

On this topic, we are in agreement...

As I said before:

Putingate is a complex matter with an enormous number of deeply troubling aspects that all need to be investigated; including Russian efforts to influence the election, the connections between Trump and Putin and his oligarch allies, allegations that the Putin regime has been "grooming" Trump to influence him for years, Trump's financial ties to Russia, (At his press conference he claimed categorically yet again that there aren't any, but just eight years ago Don Jr. publicly said "“We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.” What if anything changed in those eight years? Subpoenaing Trumps tax returns, both personal and for his business should help to shed light on this discrepancy) the relationship and contacts between top Trump aides and agents of the Putin regime, (both during the campaign and after the election)...

And now we can add to all of this, the apparent efforts by Trump administration officials to improperly influence the FBI investigations...

The seriousness of the implications of all of this demands a wide-ranging, thorough and honest investigation. (An investigation that focuses only on the Russian hacking or Flynn's pre-inauguration calls with the Russian Ambassador won't come close to dealing with it properly. The larger question of why things like that happened is what really needs to be the focus of the investigation.)

It's part of a piece of a strange and inexplicable attitude of Trump's towards Putin, that goes well back into the campaign, and long pre-dates his election...

An attitude that doesn't even make sense by Trumpian standards...

During the campaign, the fundamental basis of Trump's approach was to demagogue and exploit fears and anxieties that people genuinely felt...

To make con-artist appeals to concerns for which there was a real underlying constituency...

There was never a "Pro-Putin" constituency for him to make that kind of appeal to, and yet it was the one element that he never wavered from or compromised on... (The one plank in the GOP platform that Trump's team insisted on changing was the one pledging material support for Ukraine against Russian aggression...a truly shameful moment in the history of the Republican Party...The Gipper wouldn't just be "turning over in his grave", he'd be spinning out of it at warp speed...)

The list is a long one:

He said he'd "consider" recognizing the Russian annexation of Crimea...

He called NATO "obsolete" and undermined the US commitment to the alliance...

[He did that again recently, even though the truth is that NATO has been actively engaged effectively in working outside of its original intent since the collapse of the Soviet Union; in the Gulf War I, in Bosnia in the early 90s, in Afghanistan...(which was a NATO operation; it was the one and only time that Article 5 was invoked by a member country...the US...after 9/11) in the air campaign that brought down Gaddafi...

In fact if there's one area that NATO can be said to be lacking in today, it's the failure to be strong enough in it's "core competency" and traditional role...deterring Russian aggression in Europe... ]

He's repeatedly talked about the US and Russia somehow joining forces to fight Islamist terrorism, though there's absolutely no evidence that Putin has any interest whatsoever in doing this...(On the contrary, Putin sees Islamist terrorism as primarily destabilizing to The West, and therefore has little problem with it.)

He has twice now, (once during the campaign, and again just a couple of weeks ago, since assuming the Presidency) drawn a moral equivalence between the United States and Putin's regime, equating this murderous thug with the US ...

And in just the past few days, Putin has engaged in flagrant provocations by putting a Russian spy ship off the coast of Delaware, had his fighters buzz a US naval destroyer in the Black Sea, (within 200 yards) and (most egregiously) violated the INF treaty by testing a new intermediate missile system prohibited by that treaty...

Without a single peep from this President, who certainly isn't shy when it comes to going after the press, or Saturday Night Live...

And on and on and on...(I'm sure I've left a lot of stuff out...)

Given this record, it is perfectly understandable that the press, (and more and more of the public and the Congress) want to know...

In Lord Dampnut's famous words:

"What the hell is going on?"

I am a person who is very reluctant to embrace conspiracy theories...

In fact, I enjoy mocking most of them...(Obama was born in Kenya! George W Bush was behind 9/11!
The moon landing was faked!)

But whether or not we have a President who is an agent of influence (witting or unwitting) for a hostile foreign power, is something that the American people have an absolute right to know...

And there's a significant amount of evidence to suggest that may be the case...

[Econoline]

I know your (and a few other posters') opinion of Maddow, Jim—which is why I put in that parenthetical "(yeah, I know, I know...Rachel Maddow!...)"—but she appears to have done her homework and connected all the dots this time. And I feel much the same as you do about conspiracy theories.

However...

The appointment of a man who had the Russian Order of Friendship medal pinned to his chest by Putin himself to head the State Department (and who, as Maddow points out, Trump had never met before announcing that he was the top candidate for SoS) , and then the subsequent departure of so many experienced foreign service personnel and the cuts in funding, are certainly some big, bright dots that need connecting. I'm a big supporter of diplomacy over military action, so I see raising the DoD budget while cutting the DoS budget as a very troubling signal. (Another strange happening this past week was the appointment of Jon Huntsman—an honorable man, to be sure, but also a true expert on China (he's even fluent in Mandarin!) but with no particular knowledge or experience regarding Russia (or Russians)—as ambassador to Russia rather than China.)

I'm starting to think that if your prediction of Tillerson's early departure doesn't happen, that might be a very bad sign.

[Sue U]

Here's what I think is a very plausible scenario based on what has been reported so far: Some years ago, Trump, facing serious financial difficulties, could not get loans from traditional sources and ultimately turned to Russian oligarchs for funding. Seeing an opportunity, the Russians bailed him out and then continued to use Trump and his ventures to launder questionably obtained money and to park their wealth in overseas real estate holdings. None of this happens without the knowledge and approval of Putin. By the time 2016 rolls around, the Russians' hooks are into Trump and his businesses so deep that he is obliged to do their bidding -- willingly or not -- in order to avoid personal financial ruin, public humiliation and likely imprisonment. It's really the classic mobster play, and Putin is clearly playing the role of Don Vito Corleone ("Someday, I may ask you for a favor").

[Econoline]

Aaaaand...even more dots, connected: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sInL5kyQklU


Maddow is very meticulous in describing the timing of each incident she reports. Now, belief in coincidence is becoming harder and harder, and belief in the scenario Sue just described is becoming easier and easier.

[rubato]

Rachel Maddow has done an excellent job here and appears to have a superb command of the facts.

What is in this broadcast alone should be enough for impeachment and conviction. But if it includes Pence, as it appears it well might, we will have to impeach both of them and have a new election, yes?

There have to have been a lot of witnesses to the fact that Trump's sole contribution to the GOP platform (which they weaseled out and agreed to, cowards) was weakening the plank in support of Ukraine and against Russia.

One path to corruption is for the corrupter to induce the victim to do something small for them, something not obviously wicked per se. Having agreed and done it they are, somewhat, beholden and the corrupter can demand something just a little stronger from them in exchage for not revealing the earlier act. The next time the leverage is a little greater and with only a few iterations the victim is so enmeshed they cannot get out.

It is very effective because few people have the character and intelligence to understand what they are doing and the balls to say "go ahead and reveal what I did for you".


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

But if it includes Pence, as it appears it well might, we will have to impeach both of them and have a new election, yes?

Well, uhh, no rube, that's not how it works...

I haven't looked into the allegations of Pence somehow being involved in Putingate, but even if that were true...

We wouldn't have a "new election"...

They wouldn't be impeached and removed simultaneously, so someone would then be submitted for confirmation to the Congress as the new Vice President under the 25th Amendment by whoever was President (Trump or Pence)...

And then after the second one resigned, that person would become President...

Just like Gerald Ford was confirmed as Vice President after Agnew resigned, and then became President after Nixon resigned...

If the Congress refused to confirm a new Vice President until both of them were removed, then the Speaker Of The House would become President...(The Speaker Of The House would become President immediately upon the offices of President and Vice President both becoming vacant)

But under no circumstances, under our Constitution, would there be a "new election"...

That's not how it works...

You and wes can both sign up for my remedial course in The United States Constitution, 101...

Class begins Wednesday a week...

I'll PM both of you the syllabus...

[Lord Jim]

The appointment of a man who had the Russian Order of Friendship medal pinned to his chest by Putin himself to head the State Department

Which I pointed out...

It's entirely possible I have been misjudging what I thought the nature of Tillerson's reaction to how he has been treated as SOS has been...

I thought he would be offended as a person used to calling the shots, finding himself side-lined...

But what if he's there for the very purpose of undermining and destabilizing the ability of the United States to act effectively diplomatically ?

If Trump and his Administration are being held in check by media exposure in terms taking overt actions to help Putin...(like removing sanctions)

A chaotic, disorganized, unreliable American Presidency and global presence is about the next best thing...

Like I said, I don't like conspiracy theories...

But I'm prepared to consider this one...

[wesw]

////or maybe he just doesn t feel the need to attend ostentatious banquets or dress himself up like a dandy and break his friggin femur racing his bike around before important negotiations, thus finding himself in a position of weakness leading to him failing his nation in the aforementioned negotiations.

maybe he wants to drain the swamp at foggy bottom too.

or maybe the majority of the GOP and big business folks are just closet commies....


...or maybe bill ayres Clinton Obama madcow and lord freakin jim are the real commies , or , more likely, unwitting pawns (or prawns) that the real commies are manipulating thru blackmail or big chunks of cheese that they just can t resist.

jim has become rabid.

heil jim..., all heil lord jim....

sad.

[Lord Jim]

jim has become rabid.

heil jim..., all heil lord jim....

sad.

LOL...

Yeah, I'm the one who's a foaming at the mouth nutcase...

[Bicycle Bill]

wes, I thought you were going to be taking a leave of absence from this toxic place?

-"BB"-

[dales]

////or maybe he just doesn t feel the need to attend ostentatious banquets or dress himself up like a dandy and break his friggin femur racing his bike around before important negotiations, thus finding himself in a position of weakness leading to him failing his nation in the aforementioned negotiations.

maybe he wants to drain the swamp at foggy bottom too.

or maybe the majority of the GOP and big business folks are just closet commies....


...or maybe bill ayres Clinton Obama madcow and lord freakin jim are the real commies , or , more likely, unwitting pawns (or prawns) that the real commies are manipulating thru blackmail or big chunks of cheese that they just can t resist.

jim has become rabid.

heil jim..., all heil lord jim....

sad.