Fuck it then, you're on your own

[rubato]

During our snowmageddon winter two years ago all of eastern Massachusetts including my little town needed, and we gratefully received, help from many of our neighbors, including Canada. Scooter has it exactly - it is what neighbors do and it is part of livIng in the human community.

Besides, the fulfillment of obligations to our neighbors is one of the great pleasures in life.


yrs,
rubato

[Jarlaxle]

And without flood insurance, where do all of us average citizens go? You know the demand for ocean front property will never end. So you want only the wealthy, who can afford to self-insure, to be able to live there?

And again, I bet you've never even seen a flood insurance policy, and you have no idea how they work, what they cover, and how much they cost. Or how often claims are made.

Here's a hint, my house is 117 years old and has been in the same spot that entire time. And here is how close I am to the ocean:

Not being able to het insurance hould probably be the FIRST clue that you shouldn't build a house there.

[Jarlaxle]

Yes Jarl, we know - you're smarter than everyone else and you would never need government or charitable help. What I said to BB applies doubly to you.

Unless I decide "fuck it" and go on welfare, the day I need a handout is the day I eat a bullet.

[BoSoxGal]

Fuck you.

[Big RR]

Yes Jarl, we know - you're smarter than everyone else and you would never need government or charitable help. What I said to BB applies doubly to you.

Unless I decide "fuck it" and go on welfare, the day I need a handout is the day I eat a bullet.

sad to think you'll never collect social security or use medicare; you paid taxes all these years to support them (just as you did other social welfare programs like welfare and food stamps), but you'll never use them even if you need them, preferring death.

[Scooter]

And of course he never buys food or gasoline, given the massive subsidies received by the agriculture and petroleum industries. And he never drives on public roads, unless they are tolled.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Erik Hoeksema, the church's outreach director who was travelling with the group, said they intended to spend March break cleaning up and rehabilitating neighbourhoods affected by Hurricane Sandy.

Unless they were bringing house jacks and pilings and were going to hang drywall and reinforce walls/floors, 99.999% of clean-up is done, construction is what is needed. That and money. Yes, people are still displaced. My next door neighbor is one of those displaced still, his house in Mastic Beach is gone. He took the gov buyout of his property rather than rebuild. And I still see trailers parked next to houses that are undergoing lifting and rebuilding.
Don't know what these volunteers intended to do. I helped out in the weeks/months after Sandy. After a while, the remaining homeowners were waiting for money from the gov/insurance/fema or waiting for appraisals so they could put in claims. Lots a of engineering report "doctoring" went on that only now is being addressed. Payouts came, and then the challenges to those payout and then the clawback from those who really didn't deserve what they got and from "double dippers".

U.S. border law says Canadians do not require a visa to enter the country for volunteer work, as long as they can provide proof that their work will not be compensated.

All they needed was note/document. This falls on them. I like their intentions but there are things that need to be taken care of if it is non compensated work.
When I had to go to Canada to fix some graphics generators (late '80s early '90s??), we had to obtain all the paperwork ahead of time or we would be denied entry. True that this was part of my job and I was compensated (aka paid by my company) and not volunteering, but I would imagine that going to Canada in order to help out after a disaster (4 yours no less) would require some type of documentation of what the trip was for.

If you live/buy/plan to move near the shore, expect to pay higher premiums in a homeowners policy AND have to take out flood insurance. and I think some of the flood insurance is subsidized and handled by the feds which is financially insolvent at the moment
If you buy a Hellcat Challenger, expect to pay higher auto insurance premiums than the guy who buys a subaru forester.
The gov doesn't help out with that as it does with flood insurance.

If they are still in poverty then the urgency has not changed even though you've found an excuse to turn off your conscience.

If they choose to continue to live where they live and go broke (into poverty) paying higher insurance premiums and having to rebuild storm after storm, am I supposed to continue to help them?

Besides, the fulfillment of obligations to our neighbors is one of the great pleasures in life.

Helping neighbors is one thing, subsidising their chosen lifestyle is quite another.

Sad to say, there are times you have to "step over the bodies (buildings/etc)". I have seen and stepped over plenty of bodies in AA. Not the same but somewhat analogous

So yes, I am in the Jarl/BB camp.

[Guinevere]

Again, it is an entirely false narrative that coastal homes have to be rebuilt "storm after storm." I can tell you based on my experience living in a coastal town for 18 years, and living on the beach for 7, that you can count the number of homes with severe damage from the ocean flooding (not from wind -- that's covered under a regular homeowner's policy), on one hand. I can think of ONE home in town that was destroyed and had to be rebuilt, it happens to be in my neighborhood.

[Scooter]

All they needed was note/document. This falls on them. I like their intentions but there are things that need to be taken care of if it is non compensated work.

They got the pastor of the New Jersey church they were working with to send CBP a letter that said "volunteer" throughout. CBP said they needed more specifics, and then pulled a sentence out of the second letter that was sent and said, "this sounds like paid work," a conclusion they could only reach by divorcing that sentence from the context of the first letter, which referred to volunteer work throughout.

[Big RR]

If they are still in poverty then the urgency has not changed even though you've found an excuse to turn off your conscience.

If they choose to continue to live where they live and go broke (into poverty) paying higher insurance premiums and having to rebuild storm after storm, am I supposed to continue to help them?

Your neighbor got a government buyout--plenty did not; and plenty of others never carried flood insurance because they were not in a flood plain/where they lived was never flooded.

These are not people who "chose" anything; these are people who had their life savings tied up in a home that was damaged/destroyed and are trying to cope. people who are still fighting with insurers about what is covered (and really didn't understand the insurance policies in the first place--insurers often like it that way. And Sandy was a storm of epic proportions in many areas, not something seen year after year. By all means we should discuss what else can be done if the same homes need to be rebuilt again and again, but as Guin noted, I'd bet they're few and far between (and I've seen many similar buyouts that dealt with areas that flooded by rivers, etc. to control costs).

[oldr_n_wsr]

Again, it is an entirely false narrative that coastal homes have to be rebuilt "storm after storm."

False for you, reality here on the barrier island (aka fire island) to my south.
And lindenhurst (on long island proper, not fire island), and mastic, and shirley and patchogue and freeport and pick your hamptons (west/east/...).
Dune road washes out just about every nor'easter along with damage to the homes on it. Same with Fire Island homes in just about every nor'easter.
Is the gov supposed to subsidise the insurance for these people? Help them rebuild so we can do it again after the next nor'easter?

The gov is trying to buy a bunch of home on the barrier island (fire island) and replace them with dunes and jetties to protect fire island itself and the remaining homes that are some ways away from the surf. Even with the damage sustained in Sandy (and Irene before it...) there are a bunch of owners who refuse to sell.
Should we all contirbute to their choice to stay via flood insurance subsidies?

Many flood maps were changed after/because of Sandy. So what are some homeowners doing? They are trying to get the maps changed again so they are no longer in a flood zone. What happens when they flood again (it's not a question of "if" it's a question of "when")? Is it the govs job to take care of the damage even paritally?

Sorry, I don't think it's the govs job. Infrastructure? yes. Personal property? as general rule, no.

[Guinevere]

Destroyed in Sandy, yes (including at least 100 homes on LI that burned down, but that's not a flood insurance claim). Repeatedly destroyed and rebuilt, I'm doubtful. I'm looking for the stats but they are difficult to find. I'm going to have to dig around on the FEMA site but I don't have the time today.

[oldr_n_wsr]

You only need one wall to remain in order for it to not be listed as destroyed and only damaged. Keeps one from having to meet new home building codes and new building permits and such. It can be listed as "remodeling" rather than a new build.

So yes, many more were "damaged" repeatedly rather than totally destroyed and then a new house built.
I stand corrected.

[Big RR]

I would think the insurers would list them only as total or partial losses; I recall a fried of mine had his house severely damaged in and earthquake and repaired it, rather than rebuilding. the insurer treated it as a total loss and paid out the maximum under the policy and he paid the rest, even though (according to him) tearing down and rebuilding probably would have been less costly.

eta: This also shows some of the efforts to avoid repeat losses the government follows; it's 2011, but it was the quickest thing I could find. Note the section re acquisition of homes and the enhanced premiums if this is refused.

[Jarlaxle]

Yes Jarl, we know - you're smarter than everyone else and you would never need government or charitable help. What I said to BB applies doubly to you.

Unless I decide "fuck it" and go on welfare, the day I need a handout is the day I eat a bullet.

sad to think you'll never collect social security or use medicare; you paid taxes all these years to support them (just as you did other social welfare programs like welfare and food stamps), but you'll never use them even if you need them, preferring death.

I have no desire to live as an invalid.

[Scooter]

No reason to sidestep except to avoid admitting your hypocrisy.

[rubato]

The images people invent of themselves can become more potent than reality.



yrs,
rubato

[Jarlaxle]

No reason to sidestep except to avoid admitting your hypocrisy.

Not sidestepping.

[Scooter]

Are you going to kill yourself when you turn 67? If not, then you will be collecting Social Security and using Medicare. Saying "I won't live as an invalid" was your way of evading admitting that.

You're stupid, but you're not so stupid that you don't understand that, you know?

[BoSoxGal]

Unless I decide "fuck it" and go on welfare, the day I need a handout is the day I eat a bullet.

I have no desire to live as an invalid.

I've been working for wages on the books since I was 15, full time or more since I was 17. I worked my way through school, full time for most of it, part time in law school. I've worked so long and at times for such good wages that my estimated SSDI benefits are pretty decent - but I'm not applying (yet) because I want very much to believe that I'll still be able to engage in substantial gainful activity for many more years to come.

But I'm on Medicaid and I have zero shame about that. Medicaid is getting me to a very good neurologist next month and getting me an MRI before then so he can evaluate the progression of a chronic neurological condition I didn't ask for and had no control over becoming afflicted with. This neurological condition limits my ability to be the person I used to be - I'm not that person anymore, I'm a new person with a new life and new and sometimes scary challenges. But I'm still ME! I still have lots of people I love and lots of things I love to do - even though some of them are a lot harder sometimes now, like reading and hiking.

So I suggest you think a little more before you spout off that invalids should just be dead, because there are lots of people with limiting conditions of varying degrees who still think life is worth living and I have a sneaking suspicion that you would very likely feel that way if you suddenly found yourself in their shoes, too.

As to any suggestion you are making that I'm dead weight because I'm on Medicaid? Fuck you. I worked very hard, I passed up a fat firm salary to engage in public service, I suffered terrible vicarious trauma prepping prosecution cases that required me to wallow in the details of the most depraved actions of my fellow citizens so I could protect my other fellow citizens from further harm, the intense stress of my jobs in the criminal injustice system very likely triggered this incurable neurological condition, and I have EVERY RIGHT to be able to preserve what's left of my health with a hand up from you. I paid in plenty, what the fuck else was that for?! I will not live long enough to collect Social Security; I am 46 now, diagnosed at 45 with the likelihood that I was already suffering for at least 5 years before formal diagnosis because my shit doctors kept blowing my symptoms off. 25-35 years is the typical life expectancy post-diagnosis, less if the disease becomes progressive.

So seriously, fuck off. I'll collect whatever the fuck help I need.