Fuck you and your heartless horrific "budget" Trumpanzee

[Crackpot]

Someone is trying to give Jaraxle a run for his money for the miserable fuck award.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I don't need your pointless thoughts & prayers, oldr - save them for someone who believes in fairy tales.

I'll pray for you anyway

I need Medicaid, which you would happily see my life significantly shortened without.

Oh yeah, I'm real happy about that.
For your info, when the aca was being proposed (or first implemented) I said "if their goal is to help the uninsured why not just make medicare/caid available to them rather than screw with all aspects of healthcare? Especially forcing people to buy health insurance. The system medicar/caid was already in place, why reinvent the wheel?"

If you think I'm bitter because I have no fucking sympathy for someone whose political philosophy essentially says my life doesn't matter, then fine, I'm bitter.

Why I think you are bitter does not matter but it is not because you have no sympathy for my political philosophy.
Where did I ever say yours or anyones elses life (not including child molesters and murderers) does not matter?
My political philosophy (of less government) does not preclude that. I don't recall mentioning cutting back on medicare/caid.
I am against the aca because it forces people to buy insurance and it forces certain people to buy certain coverage.

Don't bother insulting me with a further response or denial-

If you take insult with me and my opinions, that is on you.
I do not take insult with anyone nor their opinions/beliefs. Disagreement? yes, Insult? no.

that IS what your political beliefs mean. Period.

So YOU proclaim, so it must be.

[BoSoxGal]

The Medicaid expansion IS part of the ACA, it's how millions are covered - and your president's replacement plan will eviscerate Medicaid, cutting it further than what is was BEFORE ACA!

Are you even paying attention?! Or do you just not give a shit? After all, you and yours are doing fine, so screw the rest of us - no matter how hard we've worked or how much we've paid in taxes over the years.

I don't want to hear anything else you have to say in defense of yourself oldr. You are the typical DGAF about others white middle class Trump voter. You own him, and everything he does to hurt your fellow citizens.

And fuck you too, CP.

[oldr_n_wsr]

The Medicaid expansion IS part of the ACA, it's how millions are covered -

And which parts of the aca did I say I did not want/like?
Medicare....nope
Medicaid....nope

I don't want to hear anything else you have to say in defense of yourself oldr.

Then don't listen. That's on you.
Just as you can post, so can I.
I read everyone's posts, unless they have some jpg or video which doesn't show up for me. But I do so as I like to hear all opinions. But I don't get all caustic because of their opinions/beliefs.

You are the typical DGAF about others white middle class Trump voter.

I'm not "typical" I am "unique", just like everyone else. You included.

You own him, and everything he does to hurt your fellow citizens.

I own nothing. I voted for him because 1) I could not bring myself to vote for Hillary Clinton, 2) NY was going to the dems no matter my vote. 3) by Default.

I do like/want the border wall. I do like/want limited immigration/refugees. I do like/want the mandatory enrollment of the aca to go away. Any new health plan should allow catastrophic insurance (used to be major medical IIRC) where every day things are not covered (pay out of pocket) but major illness/accidents are covered. We should be able to buy insurance that fits our individual/family needs, not "the few sizes fits all" that the aca has.

I do want/like government to be as limited as possible. IMO it cannot and should not be any kind of cradle to grave caretaker (and yes, that includes healthcare).

[Guinevere]

Government is not and has never been "a cradle to grave" caretaker. What it does do -- rightfully -- is provide a safety net so that our people do no fall into dire straights. As a society we made a policy choice to provide these services -- because kids should not be hungry, because parents and seniors and everyday people should not have to chose between warm clothes and nutritious food, because educating our populace and keeping it healthy benefits all of us. It's called the social contract, and its part of living in the broader community, just like driving on paved roads and using bridges and tunnels, and breathing clean air. Many of us are lucky in that we haven't had to rely on that contract, but not everyone is so lucky. And none of us know when our luck will run out, and we may need to use those benefits to get by, to keep the wolf away from the door, to survive.

If you think otherwise, you are sorely mistaken.

[Big RR]

Any new health plan should allow catastrophic insurance (used to be major medical IIRC) where every day things are not covered (pay out of pocket) but major illness/accidents are covered. We should be able to buy insurance that fits our individual/family needs, not "the few sizes fits all" that the aca has.

that sounds an awful lot like a high deductible plan which is offered and qualifies under the ACA. what you cannot do is to choose to self insure, and the reason for this is obvious--people will not buy coverage until they need it; just as you cannot choose to opt out of your employer's plan and then get in later (and in some cases you cannot opt out without proof of other coverage), you cannot do that with the ACA as well.

And FWIW, it wasn't thegovernment, it was the insurers who insisted on policies including primary care services because they believed it would keep costs down compared to waiting until it got bad enough to meet a big deductible or other trigger.

I know I pay for a lot of things I don't like or want, from Gitmo to the wall (and we all know Mexico won't pay regardless of what the idiot in chief says), but I sincerely doubt the ACA has cost you a penny given that you are working and likely have employer paid coverage. But even if it did, as Guin said, it is part of social contract and a cost of living in our country. Why is this being singled out by you?

[Guinevere]

Employers don't offer a million health insurance plan choices, either. I have one option, and its take it or leave it. Of course, as a Massachusetts resident, if I leave it, I then could buy from the exchange (with no subsidy -- those are income dependent), or take the risk of having no coverage, and pay both a state level and a federal level penalty.

<Knocking madly on wood> I'm a pretty healthy individual. I have never had a major illness, a hospitalization, or a broken bone. I'm one of those people that probably subsidizes the health care plan of many others, and I'm FINE with that, because some day it will be my turn (and if not, that's even better).

[Crackpot]

May all of your victories be phyrric, BSG.

[Long Run]

Employers don't offer a million health insurance plan choices, either. I have one option, and its take it or leave it.

This could be changing as one of the trends is to have private "exchanges" where the employer-paid coverage allows employees have a choice among various insurance plans/companies. This is already popular with retiree-Medicare supplemental plans.

[BoSoxGal]

May all of your victories be phyrric, BSG.

I think you must misunderstand the meaning of a Pyrrhic victory, CP.

Otherwise you are under the delusion that I give a shit about your opinion.

I assure you I don't; whatever precious time remaining to me in this life will not be wasted on concern for toxic people, and your comment in this discussion served no other purpose than to disparage and attempt to hurt me.

What kind of miserable fuck shits on a sick person as she expresses justifiable anger at the concept that her health and life are without value? Really, go fuck yourself.

Now, go ahead and say some more dick things to me and prove what a miserable fuck YOU are.

[Long Run]

but I sincerely doubt the ACA has cost you a penny given that you are working and likely have employer paid coverage.

If the ACA has raised the cost of premiums (and it has), then it has cost everyone that is covered far more than a penny. Workers who do not bargain wages and benefits, usually do not notice that their wage growth is reduced when the cost of benefits rises, but union workers see that trade off very explicitly when they sit down at the bargaining table.

[Joe Guy]

Now, go ahead and say some more dick things to me and prove what a miserable fuck YOU are.

I'm only going to say one thing here and then get out because I'm already on your enemies list.

It's difficult to be sympathetic to and/or have a conversation with someone who sees a philosophical difference of opinion as a personal assault, e.g. your response to oldr's point of view.

Insert personal attack against me here - [................. space is unlimited..].

and don't forget this....

[Crackpot]

It's obvious you care far more about being right than improving the world. I just wished you luck in that endeavor.

BTW it takes a special kind of narcissist to be abusive while demanding pity.

[rubato]

Now, go ahead and say some more dick things to me and prove what a miserable fuck YOU are.

I'm only going to say one thing here and then get out because I'm already on your enemies list.

It's difficult to be sympathetic to and/or have a conversation with someone who sees a philosophical difference of opinion as a personal assault, e.g. your response to oldr's point of view.

Insert personal attack against me here - [................. space is unlimited..].

and don't forget this....

Threatening to take away healthcare from someone who depends on it to stay alive and healthy is closer to a physical assault than it is to mere difference of opinion.

Taking away the ACA, or reducing it as the GOP wants, will kill a certain number of people. It is dishonest to say otherwise.

All of the Republicans in committee voted on the bill BEFORE the effects had been calculated proving that the GOP are operating with the same values as the most extreme Ayn Randians.


yrs,
rubato

[BoSoxGal]

I am not demanding pity from anybody, CP - certainly not from you, or oldr.

I'm asserting that my life has as much value as anybody's else's here, and defending myself and the millions of Americans who suffer serious illness or chronic incurable disease or genetic disorder, or even just a temporary health concern who need affordable access to health insurance to SURVIVE.

And yes, when you are talking about tens of thousands of people who will DIE every year should the Republican tax break for the rich healthcare plan go through - it's not a mere difference of opinion. It's some people here who think that's ok, or that they can brush that off and talk about limited government as though the reality is not that their beliefs will SENTENCE PEOPLE TO DEATH, versus people here who recognize that for the heartless selfish inhumane position that it is.

And for the record, if I was still perfectly healthy and still making six digits before the decimal and paying the highest tax bracket with no deductions besides mortgage interest, I would STILL feel that way. YES, it's more personal at the moment because of my current situation - but I believe any review of my writings on the issue going back to 2005 on the CyberSoapBox will show that I have consistently advocated for universal healthcare, preferably single payer.

Now I'm putting both of you on ignore as I have no desire to read anything you have to say - and you are very fucking welcome to do the same.

eta: One last reponse to you, CP - I'm pretty darn sure that I've done more to improve the world by my lifetime of public service than you have. Beyond that, I have no idea what you mean by that comment - although since much of what you post is incomprehensible, that's nothing new. If you are suggesting that I should be nice or deferential to you and oldr and that somehow improves the world more than my passionate advocacy for millions of people who need healthcare, you're very narcissistic. Yes, I know I'm supposed to only put good energy into the world, blah blah fucking blah; given your nastiness towards me (which has been habitual for a few years now, by the way) it's ridiculous to suggest that my response to you calling me a miserable fuck should have been 'nice'. Oldr doesn't need you to stick up for him, he's a big boy - yet your only reason to insert yourself into an exchange between us was to spew toxicity at me. So if you'd like to preach about putting good energy into the world to improve it, go preach to that hypocritical face in your own mirror.

[BoSoxGal]

Here's an excellent article from that notoriously liberal news source Forbes discussing how private healthcare is socialism for the well-employed:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/ ... 6dc77b186a

Excerpt:

Like most of my neighbors I have a good job in the private sector. Ask my neighbors about the cost of the welfare programs they enjoy and you will be greeted by baffled stares. All that we have is “earned” and we perceive no need for government support. Nevertheless, taxpayers fund our retirement saving, health insurance, primary, secondary, and advanced education, daycare, commuter costs, and even our mortgages at a staggering public cost. Socialism for white people is all-enveloping, benevolent, invisible, and insulated by the nasty, deceptive notion that we have earned our benefits by our own hand.

My family’s generous health insurance costs about $20,000 a year, of which we pay only $4,000 in premiums. The rest is subsidized by taxpayers. You read that right. Like virtually everyone else on my block who isn’t old enough for Medicare or employed by the government, my family is covered by private health insurance subsidized by taxpayers at a stupendous public cost. Well over 90% of white households earning over the white median income (about $75,000) carried health insurance even before the Affordable Care Act. White socialism is nice if you can get it.

Companies can deduct the cost of their employees’ health insurance while employees are not required to report that benefit as income. That results in roughly a $400 billion annual transfer of funds from state and federal treasuries to insurers to provide coverage for the Americans least in need of assistance. This is one of the defining features of white socialism, the most generous benefits go to those who are best suited to provide for themselves. Those benefits are not limited to health care.

When I buy a house for my family, or a vacation home, the interest I pay on the mortgage is deductible up to a million dollars of debt. That costs the treasury $70 billion a year, about what we spend to fund the food stamp program. My private retirement savings are also tax deductible, diverting another $75 billion from government revenues. Other tax preferences carve out special treatment for child care expenses, college savings, commuter costs (your suburban tax credit), local taxes, and other exemptions.

[Joe Guy]

Threatening to take away healthcare from someone who depends on it to stay alive and healthy is closer to a physical assault than it is to mere difference of opinion.

Is that intended to be a response to my post? If it is, you should read my post again.

[Long Run]

My private retirement savings are also tax deductible, diverting another $75 billion from government revenues.

This one is actually false. Contributions may be tax deductible but the retirement benefits that are paid out are taxable. Given that the average retirement account has about a 7% investment return, the government is able to tax 3 to 6 times the amount of the "lost" deduction for the contributions, thereby greatly increasing the amount of taxable income for each dollar of contribution.

[Scooter]

Tax is being deferred on the deductible contribution plus investment income that is not being taxed until withdrawal. The total available to be taxed post retirement cannot be greater than the sum of those parts. If no change in pre- and post-retirement tax rate, there is still a loss because tax collected 20 years from now is worth less than tax collected 20 years ago. And the reality for most people is that their tax rate does decrease after retirement, so for most people the government will not recoup the deferred taxes even in nominal terms.

[Big RR]

but I sincerely doubt the ACA has cost you a penny given that you are working and likely have employer paid coverage.

If the ACA has raised the cost of premiums (and it has), then it has cost everyone that is covered far more than a penny. Workers who do not bargain wages and benefits, usually do not notice that their wage growth is reduced when the cost of benefits rises, but union workers see that trade off very explicitly when they sit down at the bargaining table.

I would like to see how you arrive at the conclusion that the premium increases are due to the ACA. The plain fact is that premiums have been going up (as have deductibles and copays) every year for quite some time now. Did inclusion of more people raise premiums or did the premiums just go up as has been their history? I will not doubt that many of the ACA policy premiums have gone up, but unless you are buying those policies, you wouldn't see it (and I believe oldr stated he gets coverage through his employer and not the ACA).