de-plane boss

[Long Run]

It will be interesting to get the full story on this one.

(CNN)A man's refusal to give up his seat on an overbooked United Airlines flight led to an upsetting scene Sunday night.

Several passengers on United flight 3411 from Chicago O'Hare International Airport to Louisville, Kentucky, captured video of authorities dragging the man off the plane after he apparently refused to leave.

Audra Bridges posted a 31-second clip of the incident on Facebook, which showed three Chicago Department of Aviation security officers yanking a middle-aged man out of a seat. The officers dragged him down the aisle by the arms and legs while another passenger screams in protest.

"It was very traumatic," passenger Jade Kelley, who was seated across the aisle from the man, told CNN. Officers asked her to move to the back of the plane before removing the passenger so she did not witness the entire event. But she said the sound of the screams still haunt her.

"It was horrible. I had trouble sleeping last night and hearing the video again gives me chills."

An 'involuntary de-boarding situation'

The incident occurred after United asked passengers to give up their seats voluntarily for compensation and no one took the airline up on the offer.
Four crew members needed to get on the flight in order to work another one in Louisville or else that flight would be canceled, airline spokeswoman Maddie King said.

When no one volunteered, the airline was forced into an "involuntary de-boarding situation," airline spokesman Charlie Hobart said.

United used a system that weighs a number of factors to determine which passengers would leave the flight. "The system in place enables us to take a look at how long a customer will need to stay at an airport, for example," Hobart said. "We also keep unaccompanied minors, we try to keep families together, we take a lot of factors into consideration."

United employees explained the situation to the man several times, Hobart said. When he refused they followed Department of Transportation protocol and called local law enforcement to forcibly remove him from the plane.

After he was removed, Kelley said the man somehow returned to the plane with blood on his face.

King and Hobart could not explain why the passenger was allowed to board only to be forcibly removed. Nor could they confirm Kelley's claim that the man returned to the plane and was escorted off a second time, peacefully.

[rubato]

An 'involuntary de-boarding situation'

A new euphemism is almost worth it.

we take a lot of factors into consideration."

But not the fact that you're going to look like assholes? All hey had to do was 'sweeten' the deal and they would have had people volunteering to take a later flight.

My experience with United is limited and not good. We flew over the grand canyon on a clear day and they told everyone to pull the shades down over their windows so they could watch the TVs suspended over the aisle (this was in the early '90s.).


yrs,
rubato

[Long Run]

New club seat category on United: Fight Club . . . except we can't talk about it.

[Crackpot]

They already had sweetened the deal to $800 plus hotel. (Not saying it's right but that is ample for an overnight)

[RayThom]

"Fly the Friendly Skies"

The hapless passenger was a doctor who claimed he needed to get back to his practice. Once United knew the good doctor was thoroughly chastised and/or humiliated he was allowed to board another flight two hours later.

All United had to do was to name the right price for some passengers to bite -- everyone has a price. I hope the doctor sues the shit out of United. It appears to me the RICO Act could be invoked for this transgression.

[Joe Guy]

Sum Ting Wong...

[Crackpot]

they could have had their shit together enough to know they had this problem before they boarded the passengers.

[Gob]

"It was very traumatic," passenger Jade Kelley, who was seated across the aisle from the man,

Toughen up snowflake.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Chicago to Louisville is around 5 hours on I-65; six hours if you stop in Indy for a meal. I know because I have done it about 50 times. United could have rented a car (I am guessing they have some rental companies at ORD). They needed these employees in Louisville for a flight out of SDF the next day: plenty of time and the cost of a rental and $20 of gas. Why the fuck do some of these people still have jobs? And I really do not think that the cops should be removing people from flights unless they are in some way a danger. If it was so important that these four airline employees be in Louisville in a hour or so then United should have simply done what every airline I have been on has always done: keep on sweetening the pot until they have enough takers.

[Bicycle Bill]

Kiss my ass, Gob.

I don't fly that much (well, generally not at all - my last flight on a commercial airline was in the summer of 2000), but after seeing the way they handled this I would take Amtrak, Greyhound, or even walk before I would fly United.

-"BB"-

[Gob]

Kiss my ass, Gob.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll pass.

[dales]

I can recall when flying commercial was like this:



Now it's no better than a cattle car.

My last commercial flight experience was to Honolulu, HI in 2007.

I inquired if there would be meal service, they looked at me as if I had 3 heads.

I don't even think they passed out peanuts.

Plus, I couldn't smoke......by the time I reached Honolulu I was really jonesing for a smoke.

I will NEVER fly anywhere again!

[Guinevere]

they could have had their shit together enough to know they had this problem before they boarded the passengers.

Yep. Stopping someone from boarding is much easier than dragging them out of a seat. And while federal law allows the airlines the right to deny service to anyone, what they did definitely isn't how you go about it. Really really poor planning and then awful execution.

Airline service these days is something to be endured, not enjoyed, and fucking Congress will do nothing about it. In fact, just wait, House Transportation committee Schuster (R, PA) --- who vacations with airline execs --- is going to do as much as he can to make sure the federal government subsidizes the airline industry even more.

[Econoline]

Chicago to Louisville is around 5 hours on I-65; six hours if you stop in Indy for a meal. I know because I have done it about 50 times. United could have rented a car (I am guessing they have some rental companies at ORD). They needed these employees in Louisville for a flight out of SDF the next day: plenty of time and the cost of a rental and $20 of gas.

Apparently they were already committed to spending 4 x $800 plus the cost of hotel rooms. For that money they could've easily hired a limo to drive their guys down to Louisville. (Believe me, that would've made one lucky limo driver's day week month!) Hell, for that much, or not a lot more, I'm sure they could've found a charter flight out of ORD or MDW (or PWK or RFD).

[Big RR]

They already had sweetened the deal to $800 plus hotel. (Not saying it's right but that is ample for an overnight)

apparently not, because they didn't get enough people to take it. I would think offering another few hundred dollars in vouchers (and it was vouchers, not cash) would be preferable to the PR debacle and likely lawsuit for injuries from his rough handling at the hands of their security (even if they don't lose, it ill cost a lot to defend it).

[Crackpot]

That goes to my second point at that point they are already boarded and seated. The hassle involved in getting up unpacking yourself from an overcrowded overhead plus the anxiety of what's going to happen with any checked baggage..... and you got yourself a serious bird in hand situation.

[Burning Petard]

According to the local tv news last nite, and their report on federal rules, once you are on board, you cannot be removed unless you are mis-behaving--causing a danger to the flight, crew, other passengers. This should have been handled BEFORE boarding. The rules also describe a bidding process. United could have offered much more cash than $800. Check the video. Just what kind of 'security officers' wear blue jeans as a uniform?

Please note the flight was 'over-booked' because United decided they wanted the seats to move some of their own employees, not because they had sold more seats than they had.

I think it was a about a week ago that United got lots of bad press because they bumped some family of employees who did not meet the company dress code for freebie flights.

So much for the friendly skies of United. I think I will stick with Southwest. They don't pretend to give better service than Greyhound bus.

snailgate.

[Guinevere]

According to the local tv news last nite, and their report on federal rules, once you are on board, you cannot be removed unless you are mis-behaving--causing a danger to the flight, crew, other passengers. This should have been handled BEFORE boarding. The rules also describe a bidding process. United could have offered much more cash than $800. Check the video. Just what kind of 'security officers' wear blue jeans as a uniform?

Please note the flight was 'over-booked' because United decided they wanted the seats to move some of their own employees, not because they had sold more seats than they had.

I think it was a about a week ago that United got lots of bad press because they bumped some family of employees who did not meet the company dress code for freebie flights.

So much for the friendly skies of United. I think I will stick with Southwest.

snailgate.

"Denied boarding" includes being removed form your seats before departure, under the Contract of Carriage. So says an airline lawyer acquaintance. I think there's a distinction, certainly in fact, if not in law.

[Big RR]

I think you're right, I recall reading some statutory language that one can be denied boarding until the flight begins (pushback from the gate); before then you are still just considered to be unboarded, After pushback, the flight has begun and a new set or removal regulations begin.

But I agree, there is definitely a difference in fact. Indeed, I once had a similar situation where two of us had the same seat (mine); when the gate agent suggested we step off the plane to discuss it, I refused (because it's a lot easier to keep me from reboarding and they backed down (I think because I used to fly United a lot then and had a fairly high status; a few minute later the same agent came back and told me I was upgraded to first, and I presume the other guy got the seat or they bumped him or someone else that was waitlisted for first).

FWIW, I think all airlines are pretty much the same (Southwest is good if you have the status to preboard, but every time I flew them I was stuffed in a center seat because I boarded in the last group), and the reason they don't change is because people just go to the lowest price even if they had some bad experiences. Once upon a time business traveler flew full fare and had a lot of clout, but now corporate travel departments do the same thing and seek the lowest fare, so a lot of that clout is gone.

[Long Run]

Everyone's agreed that United handled this badly, and providing bad service is just SOP for this airline (which went from a semi-premium provider to a widget service). However, what is with the guy who won't get off the plane? Three other people reluctantly got up, got their carry on, and very unhappily left the plan; then they took their voucher and were placed on another flight. But this guy refused to leave. What was the airline supposed to do at this point? Requiring a passenger to de-board from a plane actually happens fairly often; I don't fly that much and I have seen this happen several times. Obviously, doing this "bumping" during the pre-boarding process is better and why the vast majority of bumping happens then, but why was this guy so adamant about staying on the plane? He also was in the wrong.

Last year, United forced 3,765 people off oversold flights and another 62,895 United passengers volunteered to give up their seats, probably in exchange for travel vouchers. That is out of more than 86 million people who boarded a United flight in 2016, according to government figures. United ranks in the middle of US carriers when it comes to bumping passengers.