It probably will. But it should disturb everyone that they could lose their freedom without the state being able to convict them of any crime, or that they could be picked up off the street and imprisoned for a month without any charge at all.
And anyone who thinks "it could never happen to me or mine" is a fool.
Kicking a man when he's down.
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
Gob wrote:I see nowt there to disagree with in the present climate, it's probably a winner for her.Speaking after the London attack, Mrs May said "enough is enough" and that "things need to change" in the terror fight.
"I mean longer prison sentences for those convicted of terrorist offences. I mean making it easier for the authorities to deport foreign terrorist suspects back to their own countries. And I mean doing more to restrict the freedom and movements of terrorist suspects when we have enough evidence to know they are a threat, but not enough evidence to prosecute them in full in court.
And if our human rights laws get in the way of doing it, we will change the law so we can do it"
In an interview with The Sun, Mrs May said she would also consider extending the time suspects can be held without charge to 28 days, after it was reduced to 14 days in 2011 under the coalition."
"Evidence" to "know someone is a threat" but "not enough to prosecute them in court" is not evidence. It's merely opinion. What happens when the opinion is that anyone over 55 is a threat. Or the Welsh. Or people who wear glasses. Evidentiary standards exist for a reason. I'll insist they stay that way.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
Big difference between "being Welsh" and "attending a hate Mosque, and telling people you want to be a martyr."
Khuram Butt was filmed at events attended by two notorious Islamic preachers. A relative also told how he had previously tried to go to Syria to fight jihad but had been talked out of it by his family as his wife was pregnant at the time.
Suicide bomber Salman Abedi is believed to have travelled to Syria and become radicalised before returning to the UK to cause carnage at a gig in the city where he was born.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
Judgments are being made based on association, religion, and national origin. It's a very very small step.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
I'm happy with them being judged on those criteria.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
Well we have a first amendment that guarantees freedom of religion and freedom of association. And several others that apply that require due process. So I'm not.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, no biggy.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
It's not about opinions, it's about essential legal principles.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
Yep, and the May government will change the laws to make this legal.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
So making it "legal" makes it right? There have been past regimes that used the law to institutionalize repression, and the UK fought wars against them because of it. I wouldn't have thought it would now choose to join them.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
The privileged world view of the straight white male....
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
I don't think that; " longer prison sentences for those convicted of terrorist offences, making it easier for the authorities to deport foreign terrorist suspects back to their own countries," constitutes "institutionalised repression" do you?Scooter wrote:So making it "legal" makes it right? There have been past regimes that used the law to institutionalize repression, and the UK fought wars against them because of it. I wouldn't have thought it would now choose to join them.
And I'm happy to live with; "doing more to restrict the freedom and movements of terrorist suspects when we have enough evidence to know they are a threat, but not enough evidence to prosecute them in full in court," rather than see a repeat of the Manchester or London scenarios.
We did the same when the IRA were bombing the British mainland.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
Hmmmmm....Youssef Zaghba, was profiled by European authorities as a potential terrorist. The Moroccan-born Italian was stopped while trying to travel to Syria, telling officials at Bologna airport: “I am going to be a terrorist.” He was investigated and put on a Europe-wide database of potential jihadis, but not charged.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
Because that approach has worked so well with the "Trump government."Gob wrote:Yep, and the May government will change the laws to make this legal.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
So you prohibited the Irish, and all Catholics, from entering the country?Gob wrote:I don't think that; " longer prison sentences for those convicted of terrorist offences, making it easier for the authorities to deport foreign terrorist suspects back to their own countries," constitutes "institutionalised repression" do you?Scooter wrote:So making it "legal" makes it right? There have been past regimes that used the law to institutionalize repression, and the UK fought wars against them because of it. I wouldn't have thought it would now choose to join them.
And I'm happy to live with; "doing more to restrict the freedom and movements of terrorist suspects when we have enough evidence to know they are a threat, but not enough evidence to prosecute them in full in court," rather than see a repeat of the Manchester or London scenarios.
We did the same when the IRA were bombing the British mainland.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
That may be analogous to what Trump would ideally like to do, but I don't believe that's the sort of thing that Theresa May is proposing...So you prohibited the Irish, and all Catholics, from entering the country?
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
tell that to the folks in Gitmo. what's it now, over 15 years without trials (or even military tribunals for some). Or Jose Padilla held for nearly 4 years as an "enemy combatant" without any charges filed or hearings (and he was an American citizen to boot).Guinevere wrote:Well we have a first amendment that guarantees freedom of religion and freedom of association. And several others that apply that require due process. So I'm not.
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
And that worked out so well, didn't it? In the end the violence was stopped only by sitting down and negotiating with the terrorists, something which in today's climate would never be seen as acceptable. The anti-terrorism laws of the time did nothing but lead to a series of miscarriages of justice (Birmingham Six, Guilford Four, Maguire Seven, etc., etc.) and allow the IRA to paint themselves to the world as victims of British repression. If you believe a repeat of that would be a winning strategy now, then more power to you.Gob wrote:We did the same when the IRA were bombing the British mainland.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
I agree with you Scooter, but somehow I think Gob's (may's) position will play better with voters, however doomed to failure it may be.
Roy
Roy
Re: Kicking a man when he's down.
This will give you an idea of just how all-over-the-map the polls are for this race...
Here's a headline about a poll that was published yesterday:
And here's one about a poll that was published today:
Here's a headline about a poll that was published yesterday:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 74691.htmlGeneral election poll: Labour one point behind Tory party in latest survey with two days to go
And here's one about a poll that was published today:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ction-pollTories on 12-point lead over Labour in ICM's final pre-election poll