The GOP Health Plan -or-If You're Not Wealthy You're Screwed

[rubato]

Conservative America hates women and does not care if they die.

"...
So, no coverage for birth control, no coverage for pre-natal care, no coverage for birth, no coverage for the child after birth.

For up to 70% of births.

And removes the requirement for healthcare insurance to cover the remaining 30%.

In the reddest of Red States run by Pro-Life conservatives.

The only way I can explain the fact that women vote sometimes for their own enslavement is some combination of; brute ignorance, they are mindless cows with no will of their own, Stockholm syndrome.

The only way I can explain the fact that men vote for the enslavement of women is mysogyny and the pleasure that evil people take in stripping the rights and health from others and then blaming them for it.


I try to be optimistic about these things but the willingness of women to vote for people who do not have their interests in mind and policies which hurt them is discouraging. On the other hand we have learned that the best way to limit population growth is to educate women so maybe this is a similar situation.

yrs,
rubato

[Guinevere]

Conservative America hates women and does not care if they die.

"...
So, no coverage for birth control, no coverage for pre-natal care, no coverage for birth, no coverage for the child after birth.

For up to 70% of births.

And removes the requirement for healthcare insurance to cover the remaining 30%.

In the reddest of Red States run by Pro-Life conservatives.

The only way I can explain the fact that women vote sometimes for their own enslavement is some combination of; brute ignorance, they are mindless cows with no will of their own, Stockholm syndrome.

The only way I can explain the fact that men vote for the enslavement of women is mysogyny and the pleasure that evil people take in stripping the rights and health from others and then blaming them for it.


I try to be optimistic about these things but the willingness of women to vote for people who do not have their interests in mind and policies which hurt them is discouraging. On the other hand we have learned that the best way to limit population growth is to educate women so maybe this is a similar situation.

yrs,
rubato

But those Fuckers don't want us educated, either.

FuckFuckFuck, we are all fucked. So god damn fucked.

Come one wes, older, lets hear your justification for THIS bullfuckingshit.

[Crackpot]

People have a philosophical opposition to government being involved in healthcare. Making it blatantly unfair to thier eyes just a step toward removing it all together. Sort of like placing prohibitive fees on gun ownership.

[rubato]

"...

But those Fuckers don't want us educated, either.

FuckFuckFuck, we are all fucked. So good damn fucked.

Come one wes, older, lets hear your justification for THIS bullfuckingshit.

They don't want anyone educated except for their own children.


yrs,
rubato

[Guinevere]

No, they just want to send their children to expensive finishing schools to get credentials they haven't actually earned. The education is the least part of it.

[dales]

As I've mentioned before:

The poor mislead people who voted for this cretin will have the most to lose under Drumph's policies.

Sad

[Big RR]

No, they just want to send their children to expensive finishing schools to get credentials they haven't actually earned. The education is the least part of it.

Sure, our president is a prime example of "if you're rich, how come you're not smart?"

[Burning Petard]

If you don't trust any of the talking heads, you can read the bill for yourself here:

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/docume ... ge%2Fstory

It is only 142 pages long, Me, I'm gonna trust the analysis from AARP

snailgate

[rubato]

"...

Sure, our president is a prime example of "if you're rich, how come you're not smart?"

If you're rich you don't have to be smart. Or work hard. The rules are different.


yrs,
rubato

[ex-khobar Andy]

People have a philosophical opposition to government being involved in healthcare.

Except of course for congress persons and presidents and so on who have government health care. VA and Medicare do a reasonable job.

It comes down to the unthinking "I don't want government making healthcare decisions for me. I want some asshole in a cubicle getting paid $10 an hour to make my heath care choices for me because s/he can hang on to the phone a lot longer than I can." I think I have told this here before: I once asked my pharmacist what portion of his time he spent using his pharmacy training (interactions; take it with food; finish the bottle etc) and what portion he spends arguing with insurance companies. He thought for a few seconds: about fifty-fifty, he said. There is some asshole who decided they won't pay for 10 mg tablets for me but will pay for the 20 mg tabs. So I cut them in half so I have the dose my doctor decided I need.

[BoSoxGal]

If you don't trust any of the talking heads, you can read the bill for yourself here:

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/docume ... ge%2Fstory

It is only 142 pages long, Me, I'm gonna trust the analysis from AARP

snailgate

AARP is vehemently opposed to the House bill, and this Senate version is more punitive.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Come one wes, older, lets hear your justification for THIS bullfuckingshit.

I have said it before, I don't think the gov should be dictating that I MUST buy healthcare. It is prudent and makes sense to do so, but forcing me???? That's not in my wheelhouse.
I have said when this all started 8 years ago, if they wanted to provide healthcare, expand medicare/caid. Let people opt in to that. If they can afford it, charge them. Why create some big monstrosity (obamacare and/or trumpcare) which was doomed to fail from the start.

Obamacare is a disaster. Health co-ops the gov setup (even the liberal NY state co-op) have failed and/or are close to going belly up. Insurance comapnies are dropping out to the point that someplaces have a whopping single plan on the exchanges. Rates have gone up astronomically. The young person pool that was supposed to subsidize all us old sickly people have opted out as the under $1000 yearly penalty is much less than the over $1000 per month plans they would buy. Many deductables are so high that people pay but can't use. Oh, but my yearly physical is "free" woohooo.

A world where women cannot have sex, cannot enjoy sex,

How about taking a little personal responsibility. You (and your partner) want to have sex, use birth control (either one of you or both) if you don't want to get pregnant. Why should the gov (aka everyone else) pay for your choices? No one paid for the condoms (nor the pill) we used before we decided to have children. No insurance nor gov paid for my vasectomy when we were done having children.

and even though they want to use us as breeders, they have zero regard for us, even while pregnant, because there is always another fertile young thing down the street if the last one doesn't have a good outcome

Nonsense, just plain nonsense.

No, they just want to send their children to expensive finishing schools to get credentials they haven't actually earned. The education is the least part of it.

Yeah, my kids went to finishing school......not.
And both have earned everything they have.
We skrimped and saved to provide some money for their education (as any good parent should).
When my daughter wanted to go to a school we could not afford, she took out those loans and paid them off on her own. When she decided to buy a house she paid for it herself. The only help she got from us was the money she paid us in rent while she lived here after college. We charged her $100 a month and put that money in an account for her. She didn't know about it and when she baught the house, we gave her back her rent money.
My son is now a master carpenter living in Vegas. Never asks for any kind of handouts from us.
Neither does.
Only help my daughter asks for is work to be done on the house. Which I am happy to do for her. Any materials or work I cannot do (like a new driveway), she pays for.

[Burning Petard]

Older, review Andy's post above. Why is it better to choose for your self? We know that when people are expected to choose for them selves about retirement, too many pick saving too little too late. For generations now the USA has 'forced' people to participate in Social Security. It ain't perfect, but it is better than the county old-folks farm that existed when I was a child.

The alternative you advocate Older, leaves many people able to buy out of their own pocket for their heath care, by prudent money management and prudent life-style choices. Then a really bad chronic problem hits them and they have bills that come from medical services that are costed out at higher rates than those 'negotiated' by insurance companies. And some of them cannot be cut off by bankruptcy. So you end up with a lifetime of harassment from bill collectors.

snailgate

[Guinevere]

My health insurance premium and deductible costs are the same in 2017 as they were in 2012. My co-pays have gone up a bit. If my little firm can do that, why can't other companies? Of course, I live in Massachusetts, and we give a crap about keeping our citizens healthy here (and have the healthiest population in the nation).

I don't give a crap what you did and didn't pay for oldr -- it makes economic sense for the COUNTRY to require birth control to be covered as part of standard health insurance. It also makes economic sense FOR THE COUNTRY to require coverage for pre-natal and healthy baby care. Providing EITHER OR BOTH to those too poor to be able to afford health insurance or health care also makes economic sense. You may not get it yet, but this is a nation, a community, and we all put in and get back -- sometimes things that benefit the community but not ourselves directly. If you want to live all alone, and not rely on anything, get the fuck out and go buy your own private island nation. Please leave a check for your unemployment benefits and the cost of your education behind when you leave. Plus the waiver of your social security benefits going forward.

Economics aside, I don't want to live in a country that as a policy choice discards women, pregnant women, babies, and children, as "not our concern."

With respect to education ,I was speaking about the wealthy. You may be comfortable, or even well-to-do. I'm pretty sure you aren't wealthy. And if I'm wrong, oh well.

Finally, stop speaking down to everyone as if you are the only person who ever worked for anything in your life. You're not. It's condescending and utter bullshit.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Older but not a lot wiser:

I have said it before, I don't think the gov should be dictating that I MUST buy healthcare. It is prudent and makes sense to do so, but forcing me???? That's not in my wheelhouse.

The government does not dictate that you buy house insurance. If the place burns down, it's up to you, not me and the rest of us, to replace it. Your call.

The government does require that you have insurance for your car. Reason being that you can do significant damage to someone else with it and you have to be able to compensate them if necessary.

If government does not require you to have health insurance, then the only logical conclusion is that you are on your own if you are bleeding on the sidewalk. You will not be picked up and taken to the hospital, and you will not be treated, and you will die. The government (i.e., we) have made the decision that we are not ready for that sort of society. I agree with that.

[rubato]

If we fail to provide care which we can easily afford and people die or are permanently injured as a result we are morally culpable. We have committed murder by our inaction.

We are morally liable for the forseeable effects of our actions and our failures to act.


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

"...
With respect to education ,I was speaking about the wealthy. You may be comfortable, or even well-to-do. I'm pretty sure you aren't wealthy. And if I'm wrong, oh well.

..." .

You're not wrong.

Someone who believes that one's tax rate generally goes down in retirement does not have significant assets. Some one who has more in assets would know that the answer is "it depends".


yrs,
rubato

[oldr_n_wsr]

don't give a crap what you did and didn't pay for oldr -- it makes economic sense for the COUNTRY to require birth control to be covered as part of standard health insurance.

Why? So people can not be responsible for their own reproduction choices?
i thought we wanted the gov out of our bedrooms?

My health insurance premium and deductible costs are the same in 2017 as they were in 2012.

Too bad obamacare cannot claim the same.

Please leave a check for your unemployment benefits

I think my old employer paid most of that. But if I were to leave the country,I'll be sure to send the check.

and the cost of your education behind when you leave.

The gov paid nothing for my higher education and nothing for my grammer school education.

Plus the waiver of your social security benefits going forward.

I believe that was a forced savings account that I paid into. But I'll make a deal, give me all I put in (plus the intrest) and I'll be happy not to take more than that.

Finally, stop speaking down to everyone as if you are the only person who ever worked for anything in your life. You're not. It's condescending and utter bullshit.

You first.

[Lord Jim]

You're not wrong.

Someone who believes that one's tax rate generally goes down in retirement does not have significant assets. Some one who has whose wife has more in assets would know that the answer is "it depends".


yrs,
rubato

Fixed.

[Bicycle Bill]

-"BB"-