The Muscovite Candidate

Right? Left? Centre?
Political news and debate.
Put your views and articles up for debate and destruction!
User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

Here's another excerpt from the Krauthammer column that Scooter linked to:
The evidence is now shown. This is not hearsay, not fake news, not unsourced leaks. This is an email chain released by Donald Trump Jr. himself. A British go-between writes that there’s a Russian government effort to help Trump Sr. win the election, and as part of that effort he proposes a meeting with a “Russian government attorney” possessing damaging information on Hillary Clinton. Moreover, the Kremlin is willing to share troves of incriminating documents from the Crown Prosecutor. (Error: Britain has a Crown Prosecutor. Russia has a State Prosecutor.)

Donald Jr. emails back. “I love it.” Fatal words.

Once you’ve said “I’m in,” it makes no difference that the meeting was a bust, that the intermediary brought no such goods. What matters is what Donald Jr. thought going into the meeting, as well as Jared Kushner and then-campaign manager Paul Manafort, who were copied on the correspondence, invited to the meeting, and attended.

“It was literally just a wasted 20 minutes, which was a shame,” Donald Jr. told Sean Hannity. A shame? On the contrary, a stroke of luck. Had the lawyer real stuff to deliver, Donald Jr. and the others would be in far deeper legal trouble. It turned out to be incompetent collusion, amateur collusion, comically failed collusion. That does not erase the fact that three top Trump campaign officials were ready to play.

It may turn out that they did later collaborate more fruitfully. We don’t know. But even if nothing else is found, the evidence is damning.
I've said since this story broke that I firmly believe this meeting was sought by Russian Intelligence as a dry run to test the willingness of senior Trump campaign officials to collude with the Russian government and its efforts to defeat Hillary Clinton. Since there was apparently no actual intel brought to this meeting, it's the only explanation that makes sense, when you look at the very straight forward language in the email.

The email proposes a meeting with a "Russian government attorney" and promises "some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia." and outright states, "obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump,". They could not possibly have been more blatant or more clear about their intentions.

And the reaction to this was Junior saying "I love it" and he and Kushner and Manaforte agreeing to meet...

And the idea that this Russian attorney, with all her connections to the Russian oligarchy, would be running around rogue making these kinds of overtures to senior Trump campaign officials is beyond ludicrous. Putin's Russia simply doesn't work that way; this was a Kremlin approved intel op.

One question that one might reasonably wonder about is why, after having gotten such an enthusiastic response, didn't the Russians bring real information to the meeting, rather than a cock-and-bull story about people in Russia sending money to the DNC?

I think the answer to that is pretty simple. At the point the meeting was agreed to, the Russians could not be certain that Junior wouldn't do the right thing and contact the FBI, in which case the meeting could have been a set up to catch them red-handed trying to influence the election. So they send in a person who while having heavy regime ties, can't be linked directly as a Russian intelligence agent, and they don't have her come in with any real Russian regime obtained info (like a batch of hacked emails) just in case the meeting was a sting...

But having now completely verified that that the senior members of the Trump campaign are genuinely willing, (in fact eager) to collude with the Russian government on the election, what would they do next?

Say to themselves, "Okay, that's good to know" and never contact them again?

Not bloody likely...

That would be like a gang of bank robbers who have cased a bank and discovered that the security for the bank consists of an 80 year old security guard who naps most of the time, a broken alarm system, and a vault that doesn't lock properly, then deciding not to rob the bank...

It beggars the imagination to think that there weren't contacts beyond this one meeting. (Especially when one looks at how well timed the DNC and Podesta email dumps were.) The question is how much of what happened after this meeting can be verified and tracked down by the press and/or the Mueller investigation, and how much will remain held only by Putin and Co, to hold over Trump's head.
Last edited by Lord Jim on Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage

ex-khobar Andy
Posts: 5800
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:16 am
Location: Louisville KY as of July 2018

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

I do like that 'dry run' analysis, LJ. Fits the facts, at least as currently understood.

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 20038
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by BoSoxGal »

Image
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

Image
ImageImageImage

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 20038
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by BoSoxGal »

I think it's hilarious that Reagan has wings and Nixon doesn't. As if . . . :lol:
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
Econoline
Posts: 9607
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Econoline »

“As this picture clearly shows...Image
...the meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and his Russian handlers was the smallest such meeting that ever happened before in the history of the world, PERIOD.”
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 20038
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by BoSoxGal »

Here's a new headline over at the DM:
National Enquirer releases 'exhaustive investigation' into 'evil Hillary Clinton' claiming she framed the Trump family over Russia and the Don Jr. meeting was a setup
Of course, 45 is buddies with the National Enquirer publisher. :roll:
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

If this had been a cunning plan by the Clinton campaign (an operation that wasn't particularly known for cunning plans) don't you think that they might have leaked the story of this meeting, oh I don't know, maybe sometime during the campaign when it could actually have helped them, rather than nine months after the election? :loon

But Trumpanzees aren't well known for thinking things through, (if they did, they wouldn't be Trumpanzees) so no doubt there are millions of people out there that will swallow this blatant bullshit sandwich... :roll:
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

I want to thank Donald for using a 90 minute interview with The Failing New York Times to put the focus squarely on Russiagate and the Russiagate cover-up:
6 Wild Claims Trump Made In His Bizarre New York Times Interview

In an interview with The New York Times published Wednesday, President Donald Trump made a series of shocking statements about his administration’s ties to Russia, ongoing investigations into collusion with a foreign government and his waning happiness with senior officials in the White House. Here are some of the most eyebrow-raising passages from the exclusive sit-down:

Trump would not have appointed Attorney General Jeff Sessions if he’d known he would recuse himself from the Russia probe.
“Jeff Sessions takes the job, gets into the job, recuses himself. I then have ― which, frankly, I think is very unfair to the president. How do you take a job and then recuse yourself? If he would have recused himself before the job, I would have said, ‘Thanks, Jeff, but I can’t, you know, I’m not going to take you.’ It’s extremely unfair, and that’s a mild word, to the president.”
["Hey, I appointed you to obstruct justice for me ,but since you didn't do it, I had to do it myself"]

Sessions recused himself from any future investigations into Russian influence on the 2016 presidential campaign after The Washington Post reported he had met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak twice last year and failed to disclose the meetings. He had previously told the Senate Judiciary Committee under oath he had not had any “communications with the Russians” during the presidential campaign, which he participated in as a Trump surrogate.

Trump said the office of special counsel Robert Mueller is full of conflicts of interest.
“He was up here and he wanted the job,” Mr. Trump said. After he was named special counsel, “I said, ‘What the hell is this all about?’ Talk about conflicts. But he was interviewing for the job. There were many other conflicts that I haven’t said, but I will at some point.”
When Mueller was chosen to lead the Justice Department’s probe into possible ties between the Trump campaign and Russia, he garnered widespread praise from both sides of the aisle and was championed as an investigator with “sterling credentials.” However, Trump implies that Mueller may have had a conflict of interest because he was on a shortlist to replace fired FBI Director James Comey.

When he was named special counsel, Trump’s surrogates quickly began work to undercut Mueller’s integrity, saying they questioned his impartiality due to his longtime friendship with Comey. News outlets the president is known to follow, including Fox News and InfoWars, have continued to cast doubt on the investigation, labeling it with a favorite phrase of Trump’s: “a witch hunt.”

The president claimed his second, previously undisclosed meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin lasted 15 minutes and “adoption” came up.
“The meal was going, and toward dessert I went down just to say hello to Melania, and while I was there I said hello to Putin. Really, pleasantries more than anything else. It was not a long conversation, but it was, you know, could be 15 minutes. Just talked about ― things. Actually, it was very interesting, we talked about adoption.”
[Every time you see as reference to talking to Russians about "adoption" read it as a code word for "sanctions" because that's what triggered the ban on US adoptions.]

The White House acknowledged Tuesday that Trump held a second, private conversation with Putin at the G-20 summit in Germany earlier this month. According to Ian Bremmer, the president of a consulting firm called the Eurasia Group, the talk lasted for about an hour and the only other person in on the conversation was a Kremlin interpreter. Bremmer told the Times that guests at the dinner where the interaction occurred were “confused” and “flummoxed” by it.

“Never in my life as a political scientist have I seen two countries ― major countries ― with a constellation of national interests that are as dissonant while the two leaders seem to be doing everything possible to make nice and be close to each other,” Bremmer told Bloomberg’s Charlie Rose.

The White House disputed the characterization of the talk as a “meeting” and said it lasted a short while.

“It was pleasantries and small talk,” White House spokesman Sean Spicer said.

Trump accused Comey, whom he abruptly fired in May, of using an unverified dossier of compromising material to keep his job.
“In my opinion, he shared it so that I would think he had it out there,” Mr. Trump said. As leverage? “Yeah, I think so,” Mr. Trump said. “In retrospect.”
[I think Donny's engaging in a little projection there. Since using something like that as blackmail is exactly what he would have done, he's assuming that was Comey's motivation. A person like Comey who is all about integrity might as well be a Martian as far as Trump is concerned. That kind of mindset is completely alien to Trump's world view; he finds it utterly incomprehensible. That kind of person is a "nutjob"]

The president dismissed the assertions in the dossier: “When he brought it to me, I said this is really, made-up junk. I didn’t think about any of it. I just thought about, man, this is such a phony deal.”

According to his testimony last month to the Senate Intelligence Committee, Comey first informed Trump about the existence of the dossier ― compiled by a former British spy, Christopher Steele ― in January after U.S. intelligence agents decided he should be told before anything was published by the media. Comey said the president again denied anything alleged in the document was accurate during a private dinner later that month and urged the then-director to investigate the material.

“I replied that he should give that careful thought because it might create a narrative that we were investigating him personally, which we weren’t, and because it was very difficult to prove a negative,” Comey said in his prepared remarks. “He said he would think about it and asked me to think about it.”

The president once more denied the allegations in a call in late March, saying he “had not been involved with hookers in Russia,” Comey recalled.

Mueller would cross a “red line” if he looked into the Trump family’s finances beyond Russia.
“If Mueller was looking at your finances and your family finances, unrelated to Russia — is that a red line?”

“I would say yeah. I would say yes.”
As the Times reports, Trump did not say if he would consider firing Mueller, noting, “I can’t answer that question because I don’t think it’s going to happen.” Only the deputy attorney general who appointed the special counsel can directly fire him (that would be Rod Rosenstein, who is in charge of such decisions as Sessions has recused himself). However, Trump could fire Rosenstein and, as Politico reports, “continue down the line until a DOJ official acquiesced.”

Trump complained about Rosenstein, describing him as a man Sessions “hardly knew” and alluding that he was annoyed the deputy attorney general was “from Baltimore.”
“I said, ‘Who’s your deputy?’ So his deputy he hardly knew, and that’s Rosenstein, Rod Rosenstein, who is from Baltimore. There are very few Republicans in Baltimore, if any. So, he’s from Baltimore.”
:loon
Rosenstein was born in Philadelphia and lived in Bethesda, Maryland, when he was U.S. attorney for the state.

He has been described as the “poster child for the professional, competent, ethical and fair-minded prosecutor,” and he told The Baltimore Sun in April he was ready to take up the No. 2 job at the Justice Department “without regard to partisan political consideration.”

Rosenstein made headlines earlier this year after a memo he drafted about Comey was cited by the president as his reasoning for firing the FBI director. In the document, Rosenstein criticized Comey’s handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation, but the deputy attorney general reportedly threatened to quit after he was painted by the White House as the driving force behind the dismissal of Comey.

His nomination earned bipartisan support, and the Senate voted 94-6 to confirm him.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tru ... 0cb3cb9745

So he throws his Attorney General under the bus, trashes the deputy AG, smears a former FBI director and threatens the special Counsel...

Just a regular afternoon for our Don...

In this interview Trump reveals his complete and utter contempt for the concept of a Justice Department that owes it's first loyalty to the Constitution, the rule of law, and the American people. It's supposed to be his personal tool to use as he sees fit, even if that involves using it cover-up to cover up crimes and misdeeds committed by himself or others close to him. In his view, it should function like the Justice Ministry in some tinpot dictatorship.

This is yet another example of the war Trump is waging to smear and undermine public confidence in any institutions in our society that have a responsibility to put a check on his abilities to become a tyrant.
Last edited by Lord Jim on Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Guinevere
Posts: 8990
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Guinevere »

The Trumpanzee probably only "knows" Baltimore from watching 5 minutes of The Wire. There are plenty of Republicans in Baltimore.

And if he was truly concerned about Sessions' recusal he could fire him. Please. Go ahead. I just don't think he would get much to chose from in the way of a replacement.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

ex-khobar Andy
Posts: 5800
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:16 am
Location: Louisville KY as of July 2018

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

As I get older I find that I agree more and more with Trump. I too have a low opinion of Jeff Sessions as AG. This is very worrying.

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

I went from having no opinion of Sessions to a low opinion fairly quickly...

Prior to the campaign, beyond the fact that was a conservative Senator from Alabama, I really didn't know much about him...He had a pretty low profile in the Senate...

After he became the first, (and I believe only, until after Trump had clinched the nomination) member of the Senate to endorse Trump and then also started making a complete ass out of himself on TV defending Trump (pretty much an occupational hazard for anyone who takes on that task) as a campaign surrogate, I began quickly to develop a strong dislike for him...

As I recall he was such a slavish bootlicker that he didn't even criticize Trump for the pussy grab tape, (something that even as slavish a bootlicker as Chris Christie managed to do.)

I was very opposed to his nomination to be AG, mainly because I'm opposed to slavish political bootlickers serving in that role, and secondarily because I had also come to the conclusion that he was not terribly bright. (Though during the confirmation hearing, I thought the Dems did a piss poor job in their effort to portray him as a "racist".)

If you look at all the rest of the broad sweep of policies and initiatives Sessions has pursued as AG, (immigration enforcement, prosecution policies, etc.) it looks to like Sessions is on the same page with Trump right down the line...

And yet Il Boobce remains totally obsessed with Session's decision to recuse himself from the Russiagate investigation, (which he had absolutely no choice but to do, since he had been caught being deceptive about his own role in contacts with Russia...though of course our wannabe tyrant doesn't see it that way...)

I wonder why that is...

Could it possibly be because Trump knows there's stuff to found out that could bring down his Presidency, so he remains furious with Sessions for not playing the slavish bootlicking (afterall, being a slavish bootlicker is why Trump wanted him in the job) role in shutting down the investigation?
ImageImageImage

User avatar
Bicycle Bill
Posts: 9793
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:10 pm
Location: Living in a suburb of Berkeley on the Prairie along with my Yellow Rose of Texas

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Lord Jim wrote:And yet Il Boobce remains totally obsessed with Session's decision to recuse himself from the Russiagate investigation, (which he had absolutely no choice but to do, since he had been caught being deceptive about his own role in contacts with Russia...though of course our wannabe tyrant doesn't see it that way...)

I wonder why that is...

Could it possibly be because Trump knows there's stuff to found out that could bring down his Presidency, so he remains furious with Sessions for not playing the slavish bootlicking (afterall, being a slavish bootlicker is why Trump wanted him in the job) role in shutting down the investigation?
And that is what is bothering me.  When (not if) Trump's house of cards collapses, most of his sycophants — like Sessions — will probably be able to escape the mayhem no matter how culpable they may be.  In fact, in Session's case he will be able to point to his own refusal to kiss Trump's ass with regard to stonewalling the Russia probe by recusing himself and enrobe himself as the one person who was willing to stand up to the Dark Lord ... and the masses, glad to be rid of Trump and willing to give credit to anyone for felling the tyrant, would completely ignore any of his other warts and foibles and swallow it hook, line, and sinker.
Image
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 20038
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by BoSoxGal »

The pardons are coming . . .

Trump's lawyers are exploring his pardoning powers to hedge against the Russia investigation
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... ion-2017-7
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

User avatar
Scooter
Posts: 17262
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Scooter »

I know that Republicans in Congress are prepared to put up with a lot, but I'm pretty sure that if Trump purports to pardon himself, his presidency would be over. I can't imagine there would be more than a handful of senators who would be willing to let such a precedent stand, that a president could commit crimes with impunity by pardoning him/herself while Congress sat back and did nothing. That would put the United States in the company of the most corrupted banana republics of a bygone era.

As to Trump pardoning those around him, unless those pardons are written to protect them from the consequences of their future actions, I don't see how it helps him. His pardon would compel them to testify with no recourse to pleading the Fifth. If they refused to answer, out of loyalty or whatever, than contempt of Congress, regardless of its odious use in the past, is still an actual thing. A year in prison might not sound like a lot until they are threaten with one count for each question they refuse to answer. Oh, and of course if they lie, the penalty for perjury is even greater.

I don't believe that whoever is concocting this scheme has thought it through.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

Grassley: Subpoenas Ready for Trump Jr., Manafort

The Senate Judiciary Committee will subpoena President Trump’s son Donald Jr. and former campaign manager Paul Manafort if they do not agree to testify next week, the committee’s chairman told RealClearPolitics.

Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley has signed off on the subpoenas along with the ranking Democrat on the committee, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, Grassley confirmed Thursday — meaning no further action would need to be taken should Trump Jr. or Manafort fail to testify.

“We’ve already authorized a subpoena,” said Grassley, adding that the committee would take that next step “almost immediately, if they don’t accept.”

Grassley added, "We are having a hearing next Wednesday, so obviously we want to hear right away so we can get the subpoena -- I hope they accept the subpoena voluntarily, but if they don't then you have to have a marshal give it and that takes a little more time."

The subpoena would mark a historic moment, with a committee controlled by the sitting president’s own party questioning his eldest child in public.

Manafort and Donald Trump Jr. have not yet responded to the committee’s request, but they will need to do so by Friday, Grassley added. The committee is also hoping to hear testimony from Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn Simpson, who commissioned the unverified but potentially explosive pre-election “dossier” regarding Trump, after Simpson said he was unavailable for a previous hearing.

The Judiciary Committee ratcheted up the pressure on its would-be witnesses Wednesday when it published their names online as scheduled witnesses for the hearing next week — although Manafort, Trump Jr. and Simpson had not yet agreed to appear. Still, the advisory set off a predictable media frenzy as reporters considered the spectacle.

The potential appearance by Manafort and the younger Trump comes after the president’s son disclosed emails earlier this month from June 2016, during the heat of the presidential campaign, in which he expressed interest in receiving damaging information on Hillary Clinton purportedly supplied by the Russian government. Manafort, who was copied on the emails, attended a meeting a few days later with Trump Jr. and his brother-in-law Jared Kushner, who were joined by multiple people with ties to the Kremlin.
ImageImageImage

User avatar
RayThom
Posts: 8604
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Longwood Gardens PA 19348

The Muscovite Candidate

Post by RayThom »

It will be interesting to see how Lord Dampnut's court jesters will respond to any subpoenas. And would Jeff Sessions be included? I see a handful of contempt of Congress issues arising claiming that no legislative purpose will be served by anyone's testimony. I can't imagine any one of these aloof and detached players spending any jail time for noncompliance. Well, maybe Manafort, he constantly looks guilty of something.

I'm thinking Mueller's "follow-the-money" approach (if he's not fired by then) will be Drumpf's ruin, or at least the source of such a major scandal and embarrassment that it causes POTUS to secede his ridiculous charade.
Image
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

User avatar
Scooter
Posts: 17262
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Scooter »

"A lawyer, spy, mob boss, and a money launderer walk into a bar. Bartender says: "you guys must be here to talk about adoption."
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell

User avatar
Lord Jim
Posts: 29716
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:44 pm
Location: TCTUTKHBDTMDITSAF

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

:lol:
ImageImageImage

User avatar
BoSoxGal
Posts: 20038
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: The Heart of Red Sox Nation

Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by BoSoxGal »

:lol: x2
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Post Reply