Why teachers quit.

[Gob]

A teacher was sacked after bringing a sledge into school and allowing two pupils to ride on it, a disciplinary hearing has heard.

Design teacher Richard Tremelling said he took it to Cefn Hengoed Community School, Swansea, in February 2009 as an example of "classic design".

He was dismissed for failing to follow the school's health and safety policy.

The General Teaching Council for Wales (GTCW) committee found him guilty of unacceptable professional conduct.

He was reprimanded by the professional conduct committee, who found four charges proven.

These included allowing the pupils to go sledging and ignoring cautionary words of warning from colleagues.

The hearing heard that two boys on Mr Tremelling's GCSE design and technology course asked to try out the sledge at the end of the lesson, and he took them sledging on the snow-covered school grounds.

Mr Tremelling was initially suspended pending an inquiry, accused of failing to consult the head teacher, or writing to the school governors, before setting off.

While he maintained he risk-assessed the activity before it began, he was told he should have done it in writing.

A model of the sledge used by Mr Tremelling Mr Tremelling is accused of nine separate breaches, amounting to an alleged failure in his duty of care to pupils.

Appearing before a professional conduct committee on Monday, he argued that the sledging session was a logical extension of a lesson.

Mr Tremelling said his own risk assessment had been sufficient and that a written assessment had been unnecessary.

"I did not go sledding on a cheap Asda £10 sledge," Mr Tremelling told the committee. "I went on a Scandinavian classic design sledge which has built-in safety features, and also a brake."



The hearing heard that school policy stated that written permission was needed for any outside activity or visit.

But Mr Tremelling said that did not regard the sledging as either an official activity because it was within school, or a visit out of school.

An independent assessment had later been made of the sledging which concluded "no significant risk" was presented by Mr Tremelling's actions

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-12160124

[rubato]

People hate teachers, pay them crap, blame them for things they would never take responsibility for themselves ...


That's why they quit.


yrs,
rubato

[Jarlaxle]

Horse shit.

Then again, you know it's horse shit.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Teachers around here are paid pretty well. I read the other day that the average teachers salary here on Long Island is $88,000, and when benefits (pension, medical for life, etc) are added in it's worth over $120,000.

[dales]

For the past 3 years here in California (with all the cutbacks to education) many teachers have been let go.

My younger daughter (who is in college studying liberal arts, no less) wants to enter the teaching profession.

Hopefully the fiscal climate will change here, but I have my doubts.

[Gob]

Here's an interesting comparison

[oldr_n_wsr]

Very interesting especially since the USA has the highest salaries but not the highest performance.

[Gob]

The difference in salaries isn't really that great I was surprised to find.

[rubato]

In the US a teacher has to come up with $12,000/yr for family health insurance and there is no job security in many US states.

yrs,
rubato

[Jarlaxle]

Teachers around here are paid pretty well. I read the other day that the average teachers salary here on Long Island is $88,000, and when benefits (pension, medical for life, etc) are added in it's worth over $120,000.

$88K a year plus great benefits and a huge pension is damned good for a part-time job!

[Sean]

part-time job!

I for one am not going to bite Jarl...

[dales]

Summers off and not working a traditional 9 to 5 job would be considered "part-time".

[rubato]

http://teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state

Avg. teacher salary for NY state is $57,350.00

If it is true, and there is no evidence presented, that on LI the average is $88,000 then the LI schools are able to attract the top percentage of teachers.

yrs,
rubato

[oldr_n_wsr]

I can't find where I read the $80K+ salary, I tried to find it at Newsday.com (which is where I think I read it) but their search engine sucks. I put in "Long Island teachers salaries" and I was getting articles about Afganistan.

Anyway found this site LINK which shows this.
FYI, Long Island = Nassau/Suffolk

Top cities for kindergarten teachers
•U.S. average salary: $47,750
•Best average teacher salaries:
◦Nassau-Suffolk, NY: $77,400
◦Yuba City, CA: $74,680
◦Fresno, CA: $71,750
◦Kingston, NY: $65,270
◦Stockton, CA: $64,140

Top cities for elementary school teacher salaries
•U.S. average salary: $50,040
•Best average teacher salaries:
◦Nassau-Suffolk, NY: $78,400
◦Yuba City, CA: $70,060
◦Fresno, CA: $70,020
◦Ann Arbor, MI: $69,310
◦Kingston, NY: $67,450

Top cities for middle school teacher salaries
•U.S. average salary: $50,630
•Best average teacher salaries:
◦Nassau-Suffolk, NY: $78,150
◦Modesto, CA: $66,690
◦Napa, CA: $66,230
◦New York-White Plains-Wayne, NY-NJ: $66,070
◦Kingston, NY: $65,980

Top cities for secondary school teacher salaries
•U.S. average salary: $52,450
•Best average teacher salaries:
◦Nassau-Suffolk, NY: $78,380
◦Ann Arbor, MI: $75,820
◦Lake County-Kenosha County, IL-WI: $71,520
◦Chicago-Naperville-Joliet, IL: $69,070
◦Santa Ana-Anaheim-Irvine, CA: $68,450

Top cities for special ed teacher salaries – preschool, kindergarten, and elementary school
•U.S. average salary: $51,230
•Best average teacher salaries:
◦Nassau-Suffolk, NY: $76,420
◦Visalia-Porterville, CA: $74,780
◦Ann Arbor, MI: $73,230
◦San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA: $67,750
◦Modesto, CA: $67,090

Top cities for special ed teacher salaries – middle school teachers
•U.S. average salary: $51,610
•Best average teacher salaries:
◦Visalia-Porterville, CA: $86,880
◦Bethesda-Gaithersburg-Frederick, MD: $77,940
◦Nassau-Suffolk, NY: $75,750
◦Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT: $68,330
◦Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT: $66,380

Top cities for special ed teacher salaries – secondary school teachers
•U.S. average salary: $53,020
•Best average teacher salaries:
◦Nassau-Suffolk, NY: $83,240
◦Visalia-Porterville, CA: $73,910
◦Holland-Grand Haven, MI: $73,910
◦Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT: $70,330
◦Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV: $70,330

These figures do not include pensions and HC which the teachers also get.

ETA
I'll have to concede I was $10k off the average unless I can find that article, that I read in the hardcopy version of Newsday

[oldr_n_wsr]

I also found this at Newsday
http://longisland.newsday.com/schools/r ... php?id=pay
This lists average salary by school district. sorry I don't know how to format this into nice columns

District Years teaching* Turnover** Masters degrees*** Average salary
1 Fire Island 20 7.7 50.0 $96,228
2 East Williston 18 6.7 52.4 $93,001
3 Island Park 17 11.4 57.7 $88,992
4 Quogue 20 -- 66.7 $88,975
5 Great Neck 15 6.1 58.6 $87,444
6 Roslyn 14 7.9 51.5 $87,277
7 Mineola 12 9.9 51.6 $85,978
8 Lawrence 14 13.0 45.2 $85,400
9 East Rockaway 16 7.7 46.7 $84,130
10 Bridgehampton 15 8.1 65.8 $83,568
11 West Hempstead 16 8.3 50.3 $83,546
12 Jericho 13 8.5 56.5 $83,150
13 Carle Place 14 7.2 41.4 $83,088
14 Locust Valley 13 8.1 45.6 $82,553
15 Port Washington 12 9.5 52.9 $82,520
16 Oyster Bay-East Norwich 14 11.6 61.3 $82,513
17 Amagansett 16 15.0 19.0 $81,440
18 Fishers Island 23 6.7 20.0 $81,434
19 Plainview-Old Bethpage 13 6.4 65.4 $81,163
20 Syosset 11 10.2 50.7 $79,065
21 Garden City 12 11.0 38.0 $79,030
22 Cold Spring Harbor 12 14.2 44.6 $78,599
23 Glen Cove 13 11.9 51.4 $78,485
24 Valley Stream 30 13 7.4 49.2 $78,089
25 Southampton 16 17.7 49.4 $78,050
26 Oceanside 12 9.2 51.8 $77,448
27 Uniondale 12 10.2 41.0 $77,132
28 Wantagh 12 7.7 60.5 $76,480
29 East Hampton 14 8.0 48.4 $76,436
30 Shelter Island 16 3.1 42.9 $76,272
31 Herricks 13 9.2 40.2 $75,539
32 Hempstead 12 11.9 53.3 $74,950
33 Valley Stream 24 12 8.6 55.7 $74,743
34 Seaford 11 10.7 53.6 $74,479
35 North Bellmore 11 6.9 44.4 $74,424
36 Patchogue-Medford 12 10.3 59.0 $74,316
37 East Islip 11 6.7 53.9 $73,405
38 Westbury 12 10.4 44.7 $73,326
39 New Hyde Park-Garden City Park 15 7.0 34.9 $73,284
40 Sachem 12 7.2 53.0 $72,846
41 Levittown 10 7.8 47.6 $72,832
42 Franklin Square 12 13.9 31.9 $72,812
43 Lynbrook 10 9.1 37.3 $72,547
44 Bethpage 10 9.9 45.9 $72,467
45 Elwood 11 10.6 54.6 $72,202
46 Port Jefferson 11 11.3 50.9 $71,984
47 Comsewogue 9 12.9 56.2 $71,980
48 Floral Park-Bellerose 14 9.8 44.0 $71,952
49 Mount Sinai 13 4.6 57.0 $71,773
50 Babylon 12 7.2 59.3 $71,674
51 Freeport 12 11.3 30.6 $71,575
52 Baldwin 8 12.2 37.2 $71,566
53 Bellmore 10 12.3 51.0 $71,527
54 Copiague 11 9.7 45.9 $71,465
55 Sayville 10 8.1 50.7 $71,396
56 Rockville Centre 9 13.9 34.8 $71,325
57 Center Moriches 13 7.9 47.9 $71,016
58 Riverhead 12 7.8 55.9 $70,193
59 Farmingdale 10 12.4 58.1 $69,838
60 Malverne 12 8.9 35.5 $69,449
61 Southold 13 6.5 67.4 $69,432
62 Westhampton Beach 11 11.7 37.0 $69,408
63 Massapequa 10 9.3 49.8 $69,269
64 Bayport-Blue Point 9 13.2 46.2 $69,202
65 South Country 10 10.8 45.8 $68,981
66 Springs 10 8.0 38.9 $68,752
67 North Merrick 9 10.6 38.1 $68,752
68 Longwood 11 5.3 49.3 $68,752
69 Bellmore-Merrick 7 11.5 32.7 $68,750
70 East Quogue 14 16.7 44.4 $68,727
71 William Floyd 12 11.4 43.9 $68,627
72 West Babylon 9 5.3 57.1 $68,419
73 Sewanhaka 9 10.1 33.4 $68,216
74 Plainedge 9 11.2 31.4 $68,143
75 Island Trees 9 8.4 37.0 $67,988
76 Miller Place 15 9.0 56.7 $67,624
77 Sag Harbor 12 10.3 32.7 $67,266
78 Elmont 11 13.3 39.2 $66,602
79 Montauk 12 10.0 55.0 $66,463
80 Brentwood 8 6.8 53.9 $66,241
81 Merrick 10 14.1 45.2 $66,170
82 Amityville 9 14.6 41.9 $65,522
83 Islip 10 7.9 48.5 $65,042
84 Hauppauge 8 10.7 46.0 $64,877
85 Harborfields 8 12.2 37.5 $64,711
86 Hicksville 10 13.0 22.2 $64,638
87 South Huntington 9 8.8 41.9 $64,543
88 Northport-East Northport 10 8.7 31.6 $64,483
89 Huntington 9 10.1 50.9 $64,385
90 Commack 8 9.1 48.5 $64,302
91 Central Islip 10 8.8 53.8 $63,864
92 West Islip 9 8.5 49.1 $63,727
93 Roosevelt 11 11.2 33.3 $63,298
94 Bay Shore 8 10.7 34.8 $63,094
95 Three Village 9 12.5 41.8 $62,802
96 Mattituck-Cutchogue 13 10.4 53.8 $62,718
97 Half Hollow Hills 8 12.8 35.2 $62,588
98 Smithtown 7 11.4 41.4 $62,547
99 North Babylon 8 8.3 42.5 $62,505
100 Middle Country 9 11.9 63.3 $60,868
101 Wainscott Common 17 33.3 20.0 $60,774
102 Lindenhurst 9 10.3 40.7 $60,231
103 Rocky Point 7 11.1 48.7 $60,146
104 Hampton Bays 9 15.8 43.6 $59,478
105 Eastport-South Manor 8 -- 44.9 $59,021
106 Deer Park 8 12.3 38.7 $58,541
107 Kings Park 7 12.9 35.1 $58,483
108 Tuckahoe 7 15.8 26.8 $58,362
109 Remsenburg-Speonk 11 4.0 18.5 $58,034
110 Wyandanch 10 14.0 27.3 $57,469
111 Greenport 15 6.0 37.5 $55,657
112 Shoreham-Wading River 8 15.1 41.6 $55,436
113 East Moriches 8 12.1 36.5 $55,108
114 Oysterponds 14 6.7 26.7 $54,324
115 Little Flower 8 9.1 45.0 $53,784
116 New Suffolk 4 50.0 -- $42,150

Data for 2005 school year. Source: New York State Department of Education
* Median years teaching experience
** Annual teacher turnover rate
*** Teachers with master's degree plus 30 hours or doctorate

And this is from 2005, I would expect the salaries to be a bit higher.

[dgs49]

I'm afraid rubato's talking out of his ass again.

(a) By and large, American public school teachers NEVER quit. The turnover in the "profession" is minimal - lower than any other non-government "profession" except physicians. By the time a teacher has 10 years on the job, the accumulated compensation and benefits (in most municipalities) is such that they could NEVER hope to duplicate it in the Real World, much less for 9 months of work.

(b) Show me a single school district where any American public school teacher has to pay $12k per hear in health benefits. Complete balderdash.

(c) No job security? Balderdash-squared.

(d) I thought a "sledge" was a hammer.

[oldr_n_wsr]

(a) By and large, American public school teachers NEVER quit. The turnover in the "profession" is minimal - lower than any other non-government "profession" except physicians. By the time a teacher has 10 years on the job, the accumulated compensation and benefits (in most municipalities) is such that they could NEVER hope to duplicate it in the Real World, much less for 9 months of work.

(b) Show me a single school district where any American public school teacher has to pay $12k per hear in health benefits. Complete balderdash.

And lets not forget automatic "step" increases outside of any raise they are due from their contract. Take a course, get a few more masters credits, automatic raise. No need to perform any better, no need to go to another level of teaching, just take another course and bingo, you get a raise. Now your 4% raise in the next cycle is more money as you have raised your base salary just by taking (and passing) a course.

My S-I-L is a teacher in my school district (she's also in the district so at least she gets hammered in taxes too) and her husband is a Civil Engineer with a masters and a PE license and is a VP and part owner in the company he works for. She takes home more than he does (well over $100K) and covers him on her HC (she contributes less than $50 per 2 week period) which is for life, and has a pension (no contributations ever in her 20+ years of teaching) coming that both can live on very comfortably.

During her first 5-10 years of teaching she went to night school taking a class or two every semester to up her pay. She still taught the same classes the same subjects, but got raises anyway. I went to night school (for 10 years) to get my EE and got nothing but a promotion to Electrical Engineer (which constituted less of a salary increase than 2, three credit courses in the "step increases" my SIL got).

And, after 24years, 11months and 2 1/2 weeks of loyal service, design wins, patents and making products that served, I got layed off. Teacher layoffs only happen to the newbies (so it's minimal savings at best), the elders who have the big salaries will not be shed until they retire.
I should have become a teacher here on LI

(d) I thought a "sledge" was a hammer.

I had to look it up myself.

[Joe Guy]

Regarding the subject of this thread, it seems very clear to me that the teacher violated rules that were in place and that he had decided on his own he didn't need to follow them.

It doesn't matter that the sledge was later determined to be of 'no significant risk. That was supposed to be determined beforehand, not afterward.

If a student had been injured, the school would have been liable and parents would have blamed the administration for endangering students.

A teacher should not be allowed to go against the rules based on his opinion that he didn't need to follow them.

He is/was guilty.

I believe firing him for this single offense would be wrong but I suspect that it isn't the first time he has been disciplined.

[BoSoxGal]

I want a sledge! Looks like fun.

[rubato]

I'm afraid rubato's talking out of his ass again.

(a) By and large, American public school teachers NEVER quit. The turnover in the "profession" is minimal - lower than any other non-government "profession" except physicians. By the time a teacher has 10 years on the job, the accumulated compensation and benefits (in most municipalities) is such that they could NEVER hope to duplicate it in the Real World, much less for 9 months of work.

(b) Show me a single school district where any American public school teacher has to pay $12k per hear in health benefits. Complete balderdash.

(c) No job security? Balderdash-squared.

(d) I thought a "sledge" was a hammer.

Rubato provided a link to the source of his data.

You are a jackass.

yrs,
rubato